M14 Forum

willriskit · December 24th, 2011, 01:37 PM

Best wishes for a merry Christmas and a healthy and prosperous new year!

Going through channels has already been tried by these members and it doesn't get past the local JA. Being well acquainted with the individual involved, she has placed herself in a position where she would have to refute her own statements. One of those who was present as a detachment officer when she joined said that he never saw a 214. The matter would be simply resolved if the document in question was produced for the membership, but regional would rather stonewall. Who cares what the members think or how the league is perceived? A legal remedy would take years and require deep pockets to settle a matter concerning people who simply aren't worth bothering with.

God bless and Semper Fi!

willriskit · December 24th, 2011, 02:27 PM

Again, let me say that the intent of this thread is not to defame any individual or institution but to let detachments know that the key to avoiding situations like this one lies within your by-laws. IMHO the definition of what constitutes a Marine must be specific and free of loopholes which can be exploited by spouses and drinking buddies. I learned today of a detachment that has been threatened with being shut down if there is any further discussion concerning the qualifications of a league official, so it's serious business.

RAMMAC · December 24th, 2011, 03:28 PM

Like most federal programs, while the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) is touted as an easy way to get public information it doesn't provide the access that most think it does.

First, FOIA only allows specific information to be obtained but not an actual copy of the DD-214, just some of the general data from the form. And while one of the elements of data that you can get is the service dates, it wont mean anything because in order to file a request you must already have those service dates.

At a minimum the form 180 that you have to file as a request for information requires;

Quote:

the veteran's complete name as used in service; service number; Social Security Number (if applicable); branch of service; dates of service; date and place of birth. For records affected by the 1973 Fire, additional information, such as place of discharge; last assigned unit; and place of entry into service may be useful.

So, in order to request her service dates, you already have to have the service dates, what good does this do. And getting her SSN without her permission might become a legal issue that you don't want to mess with, especially since she is a lawyer.

Like most great government programs that are supposed to be of service to the public, it doesn't do anything of value. Another series of smoke and mirrors the purpose of which is to convince us of how much power and control we have over our lives when in truth, we have little to none..."let them eat cake".

Quote:

Originally Posted by berndog

United States Freedom of information act.

Don't know what paperwork has to filed or with whom but with that paperwork I'm sure the persons DD-214 could be gotten thru channels that have nothing to do with the MCL. Therefor eliminating any possibility of stone walling or tampering.

Sometimes the way to fixing the system is by stepping outside that system.

Let's remember that the aim of all of this is to protect and defend the honor of an organization that has a long and honorable history, not a witch hunt

Mindfield · December 24th, 2011, 04:18 PM

I was always told that once you got your EGA you then had the title of Marine. IMO thats when it should happen

willriskit · December 24th, 2011, 06:21 PM

When all's said and done, it's up to the detachments to keep the house in order. I learned through experience that no matter how many hoops one jumps through, don't count on any help from higher levels. The three month league requirement is the minimum and detachments can add additional qualifications. If you're in a detachment where posers are tolerated, my suggestion would be to move to a better one.

Merry Christmas and Semper Fi!

willriskit · December 26th, 2011, 08:46 AM

From what I've heard this morning, what this department has for a leader is someone who (by her own words) never qualified as either a Marine or Corpsman and whose claim to even be a regular league member is open to dispute. When I addressed concerns about the integrity of the election process with a league official a few years back, he told me that the membership didn't really care who led them. Was he right?

Seventh Fleet · March 14th, 2012, 06:07 PM

I have a question about Marines.

The son of one of our police department's magistrates went to Paris Island for boot camp but he never graduated from boot camp. He came down with MRSA and his legs look like they've been terribly scared and burned from the disease. He spent a long time in a military hospital but he did not graduate with his company or anybody else's company.

He was given a medical discharge and never went through the graduation program. He is drawing a medical disability check from the VA and Uncle Sugar paid his way through nursing school after he got out and he's going to become an RN. Is this kid a Marine or isn't he?

7th

Chingon · March 14th, 2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willriskit

The individual concerned never completed MCRD or PI and entered OCS from college and was dropped for medical reasons after three weeks.

Having worked at OCS from 97 to 01, I can definitely garuantee that this individual has never held the title. Every individual that attends OCS has the right to DOR whenever he or she feels they can no longer handle the training. The individual is not considered a Marine, only a candidate, until he or she accepts their commision. There have been plenty of instances where an individual completes the training and does not accept comission, meaning that they never served. In the instance of a med drop, this individual has the right to convalesce and resubmit his/ her packet to continue training from the beginning unless they attend a bulldog session where there are two six week training sessions, one during their junior year with completion the following year after graduating from college. If the individual med drops during the second session, they have the option of returning the followin year to complete the training. Most never do.

RAMMAC · March 14th, 2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seventh Fleet

I have a question about Marines.

The son of one of our police department's magistrates went to Paris Island for boot camp but he never graduated from boot camp. He came down with MRSA and his legs look like they've been terribly scared and burned from the disease. He spent a long time in a military hospital but he did not graduate with his company or anybody else's company.

He was given a medical discharge and never went through the graduation program. He is drawing a medical disability check from the VA and Uncle Sugar paid his way through nursing school after he got out and he's going to become an RN. Is this kid a Marine or isn't he?

7th

The Marine Corps and the VA use two different sets of laws to determine the character of service and qualifications for disability benefits.

If he received a medical discharge from the Marine Corps, then he is considered a Marine. A medical discharge is only awarded to a service member whom the service acknowledges as having been injured during duty.

Additionally, the Va will only award compensation for service connected disabilities for active service members that can prove that their injury was caused by, or made worse by their active service in the military.

So yes, the guy is technically a Marine veteran that was injured during active duty service.

Boom Stick · March 14th, 2012, 08:19 PM

I attended boot camp (the first time) and was medically discharged due to a severe fracture..3 months in Beaufort Naval Hospital..worse that PI boot camp....was rated at 40% retired and was never a Marine...I did not finish boot camp...I never called myself a Marine. I didn't earn that right. I did earn some rights to get some medical care, etc.

Went back to try again and did not get broken the 2nd time...became a Marine.

You have to at least make it to graduation and get the title...that is how the game works.

RAMMAC · March 14th, 2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boom Stick

I attended boot camp (the first time) and was medically discharged due to a severe fracture..3 months in Beaufort Naval Hospital..worse that PI boot camp....was rated at 40% retired and was never a Marine...I did not finish boot camp...I never called myself a Marine. I didn't earn that right. I did earn some rights to get some medical care, etc.

Went back to try again and did not get broken the 2nd time...became a Marine.

You have to at least make it to graduation and get the title...that is how the game works.

What your personal feelings are and what the law says are two different things.

If you were Medically Retired under permanent status you would never have been able to get back in unless you can prove that your injuries no longer limit your performance and you are willing to pay back all benefits and pays you received. And that's a slim chance, besides, a broken leg wouldn't create a permanent retirement situation, it's not bad enough. Also, if you were never a Marine, then the Marine Corps would not have had the authority to award you a 40% disability retirement rating.

You were probably awarded a 40% disability rating through the process of a Medical Evaluation Board. They probably felt that your leg was taking so long to heal that they had to drop you out of the training cycle. And yet, they must have felt that the injury would heal well enough for you to return to service, so they probably rated your disability as not stable; meaning that it might allow you to return so they will continue to evaluate your condition for a period of time. In the mean time, they keep you on the Temporary Disability Retirement List and you receive an amount of pay. You can be in this status for up to five years while they continually re-evaluate your ability to return to service. If your condition allows it, they will take you back in service within that five year time and let you continue.

The point is, you are a Marine during all that time, more of a reserve status but under the law, a Marine. If your leg had not healed well enough to serve, they would have moved you to the permanent disability retirement list and they would have discharged you.

berndog · April 10th, 2012, 09:22 PM

where is the documentation sent to the National adjutent?

poster has been told who, and how to contact and hasn't!

Mainzer · April 11th, 2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2336USMC

This issue goes to Korea Marines. I just recently learned more of that history.

In those days, a man could be a Marine Reservist, and be serving at the reserve unit for some time without going to boot camp. They had to schedule a slot.

With the blowup in Korea, some reserve units were called up and sent on short notice, so there were some Reserve Marines thrown right into combat without ever having been to boot camp. Some of them were in the worst fights, and did themselves and the Corps proud.

So there's the question. How do you tell a guy that fought through hell in Korea that he's not a Marine because he didn't go to boot camp before he got thrown into combat?

In the modern era this doesn't happen anymore, and a new Marine is born on the parade deck on graduation day.

Seems actual combat is every bit as good as "just preparing for it". And how many graduates turn out to be "real slobs"? I'm not a Marine so I'm not voting.

CharlieEcho · April 11th, 2012, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2336USMC

This issue goes to Korea Marines. I just recently learned more of that history.

In those days, a man could be a Marine Reservist, and be serving at the reserve unit for some time without going to boot camp. They had to schedule a slot.

With the blowup in Korea, some reserve units were called up and sent on short notice, so there were some Reserve Marines thrown right into combat without ever having been to boot camp. Some of them were in the worst fights, and did themselves and the Corps proud.

So there's the question. How do you tell a guy that fought through hell in Korea that he's not a Marine because he didn't go to boot camp before he got thrown into combat?

In the modern era this doesn't happen anymore, and a new Marine is born on the parade deck on graduation day.

In another thread on this topic, DAY OF RECKONING" I posted the requirements as listed in the application form for the MCL. There is an asterisk (*) regarding the Korean Era Marines. Without further detail, there were provisions granted for those of the Korean Era. If anyone cares to research that history it's an interesting story about those reservists and the reduction in force following WWII. Some of them hadn't even received uniforms when called to active duty for Korea.

Belovedcorps · April 11th, 2012, 08:59 AM

Boot Camp or OCS Graduate! You have to earn the Title. It isn't given.