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Drop in auto sear ????

This is a discussion on Drop in auto sear ???? within the M16 AR15 forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; Lets start with the ad in Shotgun news by "Su-Press-on inc" They advertise a drop in auto sear for the AR-15 you call thier number ...


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Old March 15th, 2010, 10:57 PM   #1
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Drop in auto sear ????

Lets start with the ad in Shotgun news by "Su-Press-on inc" They advertise a drop in auto sear for the AR-15 you call thier number to ask all the things im about to ask you and the answering machine says they are available 8pm-11pm eastern time and when you call at that time you get the same message? Strange!? So anyway im wondering if it is legal to own one without taxes and paperwork provided one never uses it? Thought it might be a good financial investment for when they dry up some day wich brings me to the next question of do they still make them or is it something that will dry up someday? Also I hear about 1981 pre and post being a important date with these but still leaves me with questions about paperwork/tax stamps and the legalities of it all. I would assume to use one you would need to go through a bunch of hoops and dollar bills like a machine gun wich is why I just go to the machine gun shoot every couple of years its cheaper than owning one and no cleaning involved. Sorry my questions are not clear and organized I guesse I am just wondering about the possibility of owning one for collection/investment and not for use unless it was cheap to use but I doubt that. Any information would be greatly appreciated as the info ive found on the net has been about as vague as my questions here. Thanks happy shooting.

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Old March 15th, 2010, 11:31 PM   #2
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It is my understanding that the auto sear is illegal to own unless you have the Class3 permit. Not worth a trip to "Club Fed".

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Old March 15th, 2010, 11:54 PM   #3
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The law doesn't care if you never intend to use full auto capability, if the weapon is capable of being run full auto then you must have it registered and taxed as a full auto weapon.

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Old March 16th, 2010, 01:49 AM   #4
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Yes Sir I agree if a weapon is capable then it is a problem. I wondered about it not being introduced to a weapon and also wondered how they can just sell them out of a magazine? Seems odd. Since I wrote this I found one for sale on Gunbroker and the seller there claimed it to be legal to own as long as you dont own an AR-15 and mentioned it was a pre 1981 manufacture. Ive come to the conclusion that this is all a grey area and not worth owning but im still curiouse about the way the law is written as the law is sometimes more entertaining than hollywood. This seems like another one of these things that should be banned completly or not at all. I could see someone getting themselves in a real pickle with something like this being sold so loosley. Interesting shade of grey any ways. Thanks for your replies and any more to come.

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Old March 16th, 2010, 02:47 AM   #5
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FWIW,
I too have found this thinking bazzar. The new style AR lowers appear to me to not be machined properly to even accept those GI parts, so in a sense it kind of mirrors the M14, in that if the lower of the AR, and the receiver of the commercial M14 are made specifically NOT to accept these NFA registered parts, then there should be no issue.

Just my thoughts. But until there is absolute defintiion from the ATF on this, I would stear clear of owning any USGI sears for an AR type rifle, unless you don't have an AR type rifle.

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Old March 16th, 2010, 05:23 AM   #6
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If I understand correctly, the regular auto sear requires an additional pin hole in the lower, so if you have a lower that does not have that extra pin hole, you have a valid case that it has never had that sear installed.

The drop-in sear does not require an additional hole, so if you have one of these, you have a tough time showing that it was never used on an AR lower you own.

As far as I know, the value of a drop in auto sear is around $250,000 and five years, so I'm not interested. I like guns and all, but not that much.

Art

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Old March 16th, 2010, 04:21 PM   #7
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Sear

You can have nothing but a lower receiver, stripped, no selector for auto, no hammer or trigger or barrel or anything else, and get caught with that evil little part, in a hidden away little drawer in the shop, or garage ,for years, and you will really get tired of picking peas at the farm for the government. They don't care about the reasoning or excuses, you are done!

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Old March 16th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #8
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Post Put down on the ground and walk...

...quickly away.
#1: If manufactured before the full-auto ban law, they are legal to own IF you don't own an AR rifle. Well, DUH!!!
#2: Possession of the magic "5" parts (M-16 bolt carrier, trigger, hammer, selector and sear) is required as the drop-in will not work with semi-auto parts. Another $250,000 and 10 years!
#3: Most of the ones I've seen are total pieces of cr@p! Many had to have some filing and fitting in order to even fit into some lowers. Plus, the trip lever is mild steel that wears quickly to the point of unserviceable in as few as 500 rounds.
#4: Colt modified its lowers (large pins) to prevent the auto-sear's usage, I don't know if any other company has done the same.
I worked with a Class 3 dealer for a while and we played with an auto-sear and a lower that had been registered for modification to full-auto. We had to file down on the bottom and sides of the auto-sear before it would even fit into the Colt lower receiver. It worked fine, but we noticed the lever deforming and wearing quickly. Around the 500 round mark, it broke. We threw it into the garbage and informed our customers about our improv "torture test".
Not worth the hassle and possible guest status at "Club Fed".

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Old March 16th, 2010, 07:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albud3 View Post
...quickly away.
#1: If manufactured before the full-auto ban law, they are legal to own IF you don't own an AR rifle. Well, DUH!!!
#2: Possession of the magic "5" parts (M-16 bolt carrier, trigger, hammer, selector and sear) is required as the drop-in will not work with semi-auto parts. Another $250,000 and 10 years!
#3: Most of the ones I've seen are total pieces of cr@p! Many had to have some filing and fitting in order to even fit into some lowers. Plus, the trip lever is mild steel that wears quickly to the point of unserviceable in as few as 500 rounds.
#4: Colt modified its lowers (large pins) to prevent the auto-sear's usage, I don't know if any other company has done the same.
I worked with a Class 3 dealer for a while and we played with an auto-sear and a lower that had been registered for modification to full-auto. We had to file down on the bottom and sides of the auto-sear before it would even fit into the Colt lower receiver. It worked fine, but we noticed the lever deforming and wearing quickly. Around the 500 round mark, it broke. We threw it into the garbage and informed our customers about our improv "torture test".
Not worth the hassle and possible guest status at "Club Fed".

Albud3
+1 - The majority of them are little more than junk - a quality & LEGAL drop in will cost more than 4 or 5K - bottom line is Su Press On sells junk at best, at worst it's the ATF!!

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Old March 16th, 2010, 07:22 PM   #10
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I am wondering if they are holding these parts out to the puplic for those that actually have the legal right to own and or replace these parts.

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Old March 17th, 2010, 12:18 AM   #11
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The limited knowledge I have regarding these Gizmo's does indeed involve the earlier Ar/M16 reciever.. These would "drop" into these recievers and act as the auto sear sear that would normally need the "third" hole.(which of course the commercial recievers do not have) These earlier recievers are approx 1/10 inch lower in the rear (by the rear locking lug) thus allowing the clearance for the standard sear as well, or,in this case, this gizmo.
The problem: you need to have ALL the other full auto stuff to make it work!! ALL OF WHICH IS ILL-EAGLE (not the sick bird) to have
As a P.S. if this GIZMO is properly hardened there should be no particular wear problems. So, if the PROPER TAX Stamp
is gotten........would there be a problem???
Those lucky enough to be living in FA (free America) might want to chime in

Bob R

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Old March 17th, 2010, 07:17 AM   #12
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FWIW, the info you'll see in Albud3's post above about the "forbidden 5" parts is consistent with current BATFE interpretation of the laws. I don't know about a trigger, but an agent told me they consider an M16 bolt carrier or an auto sear by itself to be a "firearm" within the definition of the 1934 National Firearms Act. This may not be "good" law and it hasn't always been "the" law, but it's not worth the ride.

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Old March 17th, 2010, 07:18 AM   #13
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Wheres free America? Sounds like its a device that has been poorly copied and in many cases produced using the incorect methods and materials not too mention probably poor tolerancing. Sounds also like most folks probably arent set up for one nor do they want to be. Sounds like there is near zero demand for one and the future probably doesnt look much different wich pretty much kills the whole money in the bank theory. Thanks for all your replies.

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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:14 AM   #14
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"So, if the PROPER TAX Stamp
is gotten........would there be a problem???"......

There is no proper tax stamp, since 1986, if you want a machine gun, you have too buy someones registration that has one already, thats why they are so Dang High in price, there are only so many out there. Just like when they deregulated trucking, the only way to get a trucking permit, was to buy someone else's.

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Old March 17th, 2010, 11:22 AM   #15
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Any "legal" drop in has a number stamped in it, that number is already known to the man. Yes you need all of the other parts to make it work especially the bolt carrier. If you have a later bolt carrier it will not even trip the auto sear. The drop in was designed to eliminate the need for another hole in the receiver. Please avoid all of these parts unless you are a class 3 or a class 2 manufacturer.

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