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How many clicks to zero windage on A2 upper?

This is a discussion on How many clicks to zero windage on A2 upper? within the M16 AR15 forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; Question to Sherlock or anyone else who might be able to answer. What is the acceptable amount of clicks for windage? I honestly can't remember ...


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Old April 23rd, 2006, 11:43 AM   #1
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How many clicks to zero windage on A2 upper?

Question to Sherlock or anyone else who might be able to answer.
What is the acceptable amount of clicks for windage?
I honestly can't remember and I can't seem to find it in any of my TM's/FM's from the days in the Army.
I am 6 clicks from far left on a 36 yard/300 meter zero, and that seems a bit excessive (all others that I have/or had zero within 5 clicks left, this one was 32) (the rear sight also travels 78 clicks left to right, with 36 clicks being 1/2 or mechanical zero, I thinks this is a NM rear sight )
TIA

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Old April 23rd, 2006, 06:18 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
...I am 6 clicks from far left on a 36 yard/300 meter zero, and that seems a bit excessive (all others that I have/or had zero within 5 clicks left, this one was 32) (the rear sight also travels 78 clicks left to right, with 36 clicks being 1/2 or mechanical zero, I thinks this is a NM rear sight )
TIA
Sounds like you have a substantial windage issue there. Did you rebarrel the upper? Not good when you're fighting a strong left-to-right wind...

I know at a true 300 yards, I'm, six clicks left from center, and that's with a 1/4 MOA rear sight on a WOA match upper.

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Old April 23rd, 2006, 07:11 PM   #3
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Spike,
Thanks for your reply. I bought the rifle used (it was advertized as NIB) It is an Armalite. I was thinking it is a indexing problem as well. My experience is much like yours (never needing more than a couple clicks, for example my Bushy A4's carry handle is 1 click left , 2 clicks down on the front sight at 36Y)
I guess I will call Armalite to see what they say, or I may just use this as an excuse to get the CMMG A4 upper that is government profiled 1/7

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Old April 23rd, 2006, 08:23 PM   #4
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Yeah, my box-stock Colts have never been more than three clicks from center. I'd be surprised that Armalite let that one through. Their QC is pretty good, from what I hear. If your groups are tight, it's probably indexing. If you're throwing 'em all over the place, you might want to see how "used" it really was.

I'm working on getting another fun-gun at some point, and an A4 like you described is at the top of the list. I'll probably dress it up with a Knight RAS.

The problem is not the cost of the rifle, but that of the accessories hanging from the sides!

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Old April 24th, 2006, 04:41 AM   #5
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I hear ya on the cost of the accessories. Try www.cmmginc.com for the upper AND accessories,
I will probably buy from them today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikenfritz
Yeah, my box-stock Colts have never been more than three clicks from center. I'd be surprised that Armalite let that one through. Their QC is pretty good, from what I hear. If your groups are tight, it's probably indexing. If you're throwing 'em all over the place, you might want to see how "used" it really was.

I'm working on getting another fun-gun at some point, and an A4 like you described is at the top of the list. I'll probably dress it up with a Knight RAS.

The problem is not the cost of the rifle, but that of the accessories hanging from the sides!

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Old April 25th, 2006, 11:42 AM   #6
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You say that it's an ArmaLite?

Under most circumstances I'd agree that you've got a barrel indexing problem, but ..........

IIRC, ArmaLite doesn't employ tapered pins to secure its FSB. They attach using two Allen head clamping screws. If that's the case all that you have to do is to loosen these screws (if they're not already loose) and move the FSB in the opposite direction that you want the bullet impact to move. Use blue LocTite on the threads when you have it adjusted where you want it. Make sure that you put your rear sight on its mechanical zero before you adjust the FSB.

If yours uses tapered pins, it's probably not ArmaLite!

The rear sight that you describe sounds like it has 1/4 MOA adjustments and is probably a NM sight.

HTH,

Al

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Old April 25th, 2006, 01:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock308
If yours uses tapered pins, it's probably not ArmaLite!
Armalite factory NM rifles use taper pins for the FSB. I suggest posting a question on the AR15.com industry forums here:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=27

or contact their service department.

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Old April 25th, 2006, 02:50 PM   #8
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Question Is It A National Match ArmaLite?

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplecheese
Armalite factory NM rifles use taper pins for the FSB. I suggest posting a question on the AR15.com industry forums here:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=27

or contact their service department.
I stand corrected. Apparently, the NM M15A2 models are the only ones in the ArmaLite line that use a pinned FSB.

Now, we need to find out if Shadow's ArmaLite is indeed a NM model, because if its barrel is not indexed properly he should probably send it back to ArmaLite to be corrected, considering that it would carry their lifetime warranty, although it's not that difficult to index it at home, if sending it back becomes a PITA.

Whatever the fix, it sure doesn't require buying a new upper, unless that's all the excuse Shadow needs to justify getting another one

Al

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Old April 25th, 2006, 06:23 PM   #9
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Thanks for the input guy's. I have ordered a 1/7 government flattie from CMMG yesterday. (I just needed an excuse) I am wondering if I should send the upper back, set it back as a spare, or just sell it and let the prospective buyer know what is going on. I talked to the actual owner today and he said he did not rebarrel, and he never shot the thing, so it was a new rifle. I might add that the upper did zero and shoots pretty dang good, (I just can't live with only 6 clicks of left windage remaining)
Any ideas what a upper with 245 rounds down the pipe, that zero's left with NM sights might be worth...

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Old April 26th, 2006, 09:30 AM   #10
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I would contact armalite myself...

they are good folks..

as far as an upper you would probably get 3-400.00 give or take... i know on gunbroker I see several advertised of various configs and they just don't move...

I know when i was looking at selling my Colt sporter 6601 I let it sit there for a week and not one bid.. mind you i started it out at 800.00 which i thought was quite reasonable...

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Old April 26th, 2006, 06:39 PM   #11
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I called Armalite today and they told me to send the upper in and they would rebarrel the upper for me under warrenty. (The Armalite gunsmith said that rebarreling with a new barrel was the only fix) so in the mail it goes. Funny thing is my upper from CMMG was here today at 12:30 PM. (OOPPSman in the brown truck woke up my wife after she pulled a 16 hour stretch at the VA, aint graveyard a b@#$%) so I can reuse thier box to send Armalite my defunct upper
(yep I can be cheeaappp)

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Old December 13th, 2006, 12:59 AM   #12
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I know I'm bringing back an old post but...

Mil spec for a non NM A2 sight is + or - 12 clicks of windage for zero. I've never had one that was greater than 4. My Bushmaster CMP NM upper that I had was dead center though.

Cheers,
Chris


Last edited by no4mk1; December 13th, 2006 at 12:59 AM. Reason: to specify upper type
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Old December 31st, 2006, 11:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no4mk1
I know I'm bringing back an old post but...

Mil spec for a non NM A2 sight is + or - 12 clicks of windage for zero. I've never had one that was greater than 4. My Bushmaster CMP NM upper that I had was dead center though.

Cheers,
Chris
+ or - 12 clicks ? I have only had two rifles that were off by more than 4 clicks, both Bushmasters.

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Old December 31st, 2006, 04:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHARLIED308
+ or - 12 clicks ? I have only had two rifles that were off by more than 4 clicks, both Bushmasters.
Yup. Seems extreme, but from everything I've read, thats the spec.

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