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Thoughts on the Cali "off list lower" issue

This is a discussion on Thoughts on the Cali "off list lower" issue within the M16 AR15 forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; These are just my thoughts, Its not a flame or any personal attack, just some thoughts and observations. I remember hearing something from a LOE ...


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Old February 20th, 2006, 03:41 PM   #1
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Thoughts on the Cali "off list lower" issue

These are just my thoughts, Its not a flame or any personal attack, just some thoughts and observations.

I remember hearing something from a LOE friend some time ago called "Activly avoiding obeying the law" I asked him what he was talking about, thinking it was the scotch we were drinking and the way he described it to me was "hauling butt on a yellow light to get throught the intersection" = no you didnt run a red, but you were speeding up instead of stopping.

I am really afraid that something like that is going to backfire and there will be hades to pay off this whole off list lower thing.

My 2nd thought it this, I doubt that the DOJ will acually go through with calling these lowers "AWs" and putting them on the list thus opening the 90 day window for one simple fact. Every gun manufacture will start making a "somename" ar-15 and when that name gets listed they will stop and start up again with the ar-150 ...... ar-1500..... etc ect ect. So I wonder if the DOJ will open the door to that.

Since this whole thing started I have seen a drastic increase in ARs at my local range lookin way too new (one was a stag) with a 30 rounder that would pop out. Before this started I would see 3 - 6 pre-2000 ARs up on the line out of 50 shooters or so. 2 weeks ago about two thirds of the people up there had AR's with them, most in the form that would get the owner a trip to the grey bar hotel.

As stated above, this isnt an attack on anyone just me voicing my concerns and thoughts.

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Old February 20th, 2006, 10:11 PM   #2
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"...2 weeks ago about two thirds of the people up there had AR's with them, most in the form that would get the owner a trip to the grey bar hotel."

I make it my business to stay out of others. Big Boy rules apply...

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Old February 20th, 2006, 10:22 PM   #3
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I agree, however if there is a fall out on this issue it will not be an issue of "ar" classification, but will be made into an issue of guns in general.

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Old February 21st, 2006, 07:31 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by pbiggs
I agree, however if there is a fall out on this issue it will not be an issue of "ar" classification, but will be made into an issue of guns in general.
True. I say, lets just keep flooding the state with more LOWERS!


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Old February 21st, 2006, 07:34 AM   #5
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I worry too . . .

. . . I worry about a different outcome - that the CA legislature will jsut pass a modification to the law which includes a definition that is acceptable, writes off any weapons made from these lowers, and does one more thing - doesn't allow for a registration period, it just bans them straight out.

I fear that even though I'm not "in tune" with Cal. politics for a single reason - it would set a precedent for a statewide ban of weapons without a grandfathering clause. A precedent that other states might follow.

Of course, I don't really keep up with cal issues, so maybe this wouldn't be possible, and maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree.

When things seem too good to be true, often times I find that they are.

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Old February 21st, 2006, 09:26 AM   #6
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A 10rd fixed magazine semi-auto is legal in California, despite any vague and unfounded threats made by the DOJ.

FWIW, the DOJ released a statement earlier this month that they intend to add the off-the-list lowers and require their registration. It says also that any new rifles that are registered must be compliant with the SB-23 features law. If SB-23 features are added to the rifle, the registration will be null and void. They're going to have us register the lowers, but we won't be able to un-pin the magazine. No big deal either way to me--it's still cheaper than getting the "PC" Fab-10.

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/for...ar15notice.pdf

That's the statement anyways. It might not read anything like the official intent to ban. I'm sure the primary reason they released it was to stem the flow of AR lowers into the state by intimidation. Pretty good idea actually, and they don't have to go crawling to the legislature saying, "Look, we've neglected this list you put us in charge of for the past four years--can you fix it?"

My final thoughts--if you don't exercise your rights, be prepared to lose them. We are well aware that the end goal of many folks in Sacramento is end private ownership of all firearms. Will this egg them into committing to a larger battle? Maybe. On the bright side: the Supreme Court bench is looking a lot better than it has in years past.

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Old February 21st, 2006, 09:50 AM   #7
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Just noticed that the price for the FAB10 came down today.

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Old February 22nd, 2006, 02:10 PM   #8
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Cool

If this thing was going to backfire we would have seen signs of it by now. Even "The Memo," which seemed like backfire at first has been reduced to meaningless, empty threats. If anything, that memo has backfired at the DOJ by making people rush to get their lowers, and caused another flood just in the last couple of weeks.

I like pushing back, but I was reluctant at first too. I wanted to make sure the law was on my side before I flipped the AW ban the bird. I read almost anything I could find about it. Then I sent the DOJ a letter and got a canned response saying it's legal but warning me not to do it even though it's legal. Basically, if you receive an "off list" lower the DOJ can't do anything about it, unless another law is broken in the process.

I'm much more optimistic about the end result of "Lower Madness." Even if I have to keep a fixed mag in my rifles I won't be that disappointed. It's still a REAL AR-15 that can accept detachable mags if I leave the state or the law changes.

Also, think about all the CA gun owners, new and old, that are now well aware of our laws. We have all been educated about, and therefore enraged by the lameness of the AW ban. In the end, I hope lower madness is the catalyst that brings about the end of this silly law.

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Old February 22nd, 2006, 02:44 PM   #9
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...well said...and agree 100%.


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Old February 23rd, 2006, 01:36 PM   #10
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I really feel sorry for you guys in Cali, but on the other hand my state is headed in the same direction, a proposed bill efective Jan 1 2007 saying to ban ALL semi autos and ALL pump shotguns.....WOW now thats crazy!!! might not happen but you never know!!!

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Old February 23rd, 2006, 01:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corpsman
I really feel sorry for you guys in Cali, but on the other hand my state is headed in the same direction, a proposed bill efective Jan 1 2007 saying to ban ALL semi autos and ALL pump shotguns.....WOW now thats crazy!!! might not happen but you never know!!!
BUT! We cannot run from this fight, nor can you. If we "move to a free state", soon there will be NONE LEFT to move to. Stay, fight the good fight. Hold the line. Wars are not won by giving ground.....but by taking it!


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Old February 28th, 2006, 11:41 PM   #12
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Amen to that Triggerman
We all have a dog in this fight.

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