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Radway Green Accuracy

This is a discussion on Radway Green Accuracy within the M16 AR15 forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; Anyone here tried the RG ammo that is for sale? I want to know if anyone has experience with its accuracy. It's 62 grn boat ...


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Old January 12th, 2006, 08:36 PM   #1
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Radway Green Accuracy

Anyone here tried the RG ammo that is for sale? I want to know if anyone has experience with its accuracy. It's 62 grn boat tail and I remember the RG 7.62 ammo was great for 200 yds.

Just bought a Compass lake Ar for CMP and am looking for some good practice ammo (Don't reload for the ar yet)
Any opinions would be great. Including other makes of milsurp 223.

Charles

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Old January 13th, 2006, 06:30 AM   #2
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The stuff is OK but none of the 62 grain is especially accurate. I don't know about the RG on the market right now because when I bought it, it was coming on strippers, in bandoleers and then a 50 cal can. I had no problem with the 90-91 manf dated stuff. 2-4 inch accuracy at 100, and it was in nice shape. I think this lot they are selling is loose because it was mixed with tracer and those were all pulled out. WWB does pretty decent, especially for the price at walmart. Georgia precision? seems to have a pretty good rep for hi quality affordable 5.56. It's reloaded in once fired GI cases if I remember correctly and I have never heard someone complain about it. Priced at around 160 per K last I knew. You will probably have to do some checking around as many places are out of 5.56 ammo or the selection is pretty skimpy. Also the Ammo Oracle can give you some of the heads up on the different kinds and what to expect. It's pretty detailed. I liked the RG I had but some people complained about short stroking with certain years, mostly the earlier stuff. My 90-91 was fine, used out of a Colt 6920 and 6721 carbine.

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Old January 13th, 2006, 09:13 AM   #3
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Be careful of Radway Green 62gr. 5.56 milsurp ammo if you care to duplicate the velocity produced by USGI and other high quality NATO-spec rounds. Along with low velocity, shooters have reported short-stroking with this ammo.

It seems that the RG that I'm familiar with was intentionally loaded to a lower chamber pressure - and thus a lower velocity - than other NATO ammo because that POS Brit bullpup carbine had major problems trying to digest high pressure NATO loads. M16s and most ARs are built to function a a rather high chamber pressure.

This may have been rectified since FN did a major reworking on these bullpups for the Brits, so the RG might be up to snuff in later loadings, but I don't know this for a fact.

With so much USGI high-quality milsurp ammo on the market, why bother?

Just a word to the wise,

Al


Last edited by Sherlock308; January 13th, 2006 at 09:27 AM. Reason: To add text
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Old January 13th, 2006, 03:49 PM   #4
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Thanks guys those answers help a lot.

Charles

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Old January 13th, 2006, 08:35 PM   #5
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Just FYI, RG uses a stick powder, not a ball, and it was not so much they were downloaded as port pressure was lower because of a different burn rate/pressure curve. A few of the gents in GBR verified that also.

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Old January 14th, 2006, 03:25 AM   #6
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With a rifle like a serious competition rifle like a Compass Lake why would you shoot anything in it but what you would shoot in matches?

One of the first rules I learned as a "newby" is that you can't learn much in practice unless you shoot what you use in competition.

There is no free lunch. There is no "cheap" practice ammo if you are serious.

geiman

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Old January 14th, 2006, 12:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geiman
With a rifle like a serious competition rifle like a Compass Lake why would you shoot anything in it but what you would shoot in matches?

One of the first rules I learned as a "newby" is that you can't learn much in practice unless you shoot what you use in competition.

There is no free lunch. There is no "cheap" practice ammo if you are serious.

geiman
Absolutely 100% agree.

Short of getting a reloading setup and rolling your own (which, if you're going to be serious about HP, most folks will do anyway), I would steer you towards the 69 or 75-grain offerings from Black Hills. Cheaper than Federal, and just as accurate (my understanding is BH also loads the 77-grain short-line loads for the USAMU).

First of all, milspec rounds have (for HP competititors) horrifyingly variable powder charges. 55 and 62-grain loads are nonstarters in across-the-course competiton. They are too light (in comparison to Sierra 69s and 77s as examples) and are just plain inaccurate.

Geiman is spot-on about no free lunches. There is no way you will get better if you have a weak link between rifle and ammo. Train as you compete, and compete just like you did in training.

With that said, though, welcome aboard. I was new to HP last year and I don't know why the heck I didn't start earlier.

Spike

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Old January 14th, 2006, 12:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fxntime
Just FYI, RG uses a stick powder, not a ball, and it was not so much they were downloaded as port pressure was lower because of a different burn rate/pressure curve. A few of the gents in GBR verified that also.
I respectfully disagree with the above statement. There are many stick powders that have an extremely similar burn/pressure curve as the ball powders that are loaded into the 5.56 NATO cartridge.

The Brits intentionally loaded Radway Green 5.56 ammo to lower pressures in an effort to cope with the parts breakage and mechanical malfunctions that plagued the L85A1 (SA80) bullpup rifles and carbines.

This firearm was a disaster, especially for the first five years of production at the Enfield factory, and only marginally improved when a new CNC production line was set up at the new Nottingham factory. It wasn't until FN performed a major redesign that this firearm began to live up to expectations. As a matter of fact, the British SAS and their other special ops groups refuse to carry the bullpup and have opted for the US M16 and M4 carbine to this day!

This information is well known throught the community, and I've verified it with an acquaintance who recently retired from the British Army, served in the capacity of what we would call an armorer, and was there through the entire SA80 fiasco.

An FYI about the "Green Tip" bullets - aside from the normal production line powder variations found in all military ball ammo, the green tip (SS109 style) is particularly innacurate because the steel penetrator inserts never seem to be positioned in the exact same place inside the bullet jacket causing an excessively large balance variation from bullet to bullet.

Al

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Old January 14th, 2006, 05:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock308
I respectfully disagree with the above statement. There are many stick powders that have an extremely similar burn/pressure curve as the ball powders that are loaded into the 5.56 NATO cartridge.

The Brits intentionally loaded Radway Green 5.56 ammo to lower pressures in an effort to cope with the parts breakage and mechanical malfunctions that plagued the L85A1 (SA80) bullpup rifles and carbines.

This firearm was a disaster, especially for the first five years of production at the Enfield factory, and only marginally improved when a new CNC production line was set up at the new Nottingham factory. It wasn't until FN performed a major redesign that this firearm began to live up to expectations. As a matter of fact, the British SAS and their other special ops groups refuse to carry the bullpup and have opted for the US M16 and M4 carbine to this day!

This information is well known throught the community, and I've verified it with an acquaintance who recently retired from the British Army, served in the capacity of what we would call an armorer, and was there through the entire SA80 fiasco.

An FYI about the "Green Tip" bullets - aside from the normal production line powder variations found in all military ball ammo, the green tip (SS109 style) is particularly innacurate because the steel penetrator inserts never seem to be positioned in the exact same place inside the bullet jacket causing an excessively large balance variation from bullet to bullet.

Al
I agree with much of this, however, not all RG was downloaded for the L85A1. Any of the RG being made today is loaded up to 855 spec, and it has been for awhile. I do not know exactly when the changeover occured but it gas been a while. Several of the brit gents verified this and chrony test proved it also. And I agree the 855 bullet is a poor one for accuracy, but some of the lighter bullets like the 53 grain Hornady is a very accurate bullet for closer [1-300yds]shooting. At longer distances, they are left in the dust.

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Old January 15th, 2006, 10:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fxntime
I agree with much of this, however, not all RG was downloaded for the L85A1. Any of the RG being made today is loaded up to 855 spec, and it has been for awhile. I do not know exactly when the changeover occured but it gas been a while. Several of the brit gents verified this and chrony test proved it also. And I agree the 855 bullet is a poor one for accuracy, but some of the lighter bullets like the 53 grain Hornady is a very accurate bullet for closer [1-300yds]shooting. At longer distances, they are left in the dust.

Thanks for the heads-up on the later production RG ammo! Now I guess that the trick would be to find out when the loading changeover took place and only buy RG that was manufactured after that date.

I still maintain why bother with RG when there's USGI M193 and M855 milsurp ammo available at a decent price if purchased from the right vendors in case lots? Just my .02

And I have to strongly agree with you on the accuracy of the better quality light bullet loads, at least in barrels with a 1/9 twist or slower. The best 100yd groups (five shot under 1/4 MOA) that I've ever shot were from a mediun varmint Wilson SS 1/9 barrel using 52gr. SMK bullets, but alsation's CLE competition rifle has no doubt a 1/8 twist (or faster) barrel. Personally, I've never even tried bullets lighter than a 69gr SMK in my CMP rifle, although the 55gr bullets from M193 surplus seem to do OK in the 1/7 twist USGI chrome A2 and M4 barrels. Not match grade accuracy for sure, but certainly good enough for fun shooting.

I shoot in NRA/CMP Service rifle matches, blow away lots of 'dogs in season, and mostly do a whole bunch of fun shooting with the rest of my ARs. IMO, the trick is to be able to separate these activities and enjoy each for their respective values.

Al

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Old January 19th, 2006, 04:21 PM   #11
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FYI Ammo Info

For those who want to know the way to tell full power Brit ammo from the Downloaded stuff. They changed around 1988, downloaded box is marked L2A1, full power L2L2. That is one reason I prefer to buy the still sealed boxes with the ammo in Bandos and strippers.

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