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CMT and Colt - What's the relationship?

This is a discussion on CMT and Colt - What's the relationship? within the M16 AR15 forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; All, Based off the recent Stag thread, I have a lot of curiousity on the issue of CMT providing Colt Defense with parts. Please understand ...


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Old April 27th, 2012, 08:31 AM   #1
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CMT and Colt - What's the relationship?

All,

Based off the recent Stag thread, I have a lot of curiousity on the issue of CMT providing Colt Defense with parts.

Please understand I'm not discounting CMT's ability to produce AR parts; however, if anyone on this board has the actual data to put the rumors to rest I'd appreciate your sharing it.

Here's the short list that I've heard over the years:

1) CMT makes the majority of Colt parts. Colt's nothing more than an assembly house (I don't put a lot of stock in that statement at all, but it's out there).

2) CMT used to provide Colt with several parts, but since Colt's acquisition of Diemaco (now Colt Canada), that has dropped off.

3) CMT provides parts to Colt IAW Colt specs. CMT sells parts to their own specs.

4) Despite CMT also being located in CT, they provide zero products for Colt, previous or current.

I'd like to keep this thread on track, and free of the "my brother-in-law's cousin worked for Colt in the 70's and he said" kind of stuff.

Thanks in advance.

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Old April 27th, 2012, 09:33 AM   #2
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For the sake of authenticity, those questions might be better answered by contacting CMT and Colt.

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Old April 27th, 2012, 09:49 AM   #3
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Not only that but just as this site is the site for all things M14/25/M1A, m4carbine.net is for the M4 carbine by Colt and its clones or M4geries.

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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #4
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virtually ALL AR parts, namely receivers are made by a mere handful of manufacturers, then rebranded-

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=50947

its a long list so heres a link

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Old April 27th, 2012, 11:02 AM   #5
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Unlike M14s, the receiver (upper or lower) isn't usually drama filled on any decent AR. ARs live or die on assembly QC. Then in second place (for most civilian users) are material specs. Given the same features, that's where the cost variations arise.

It's easier to quantify 7075 versus 6061(receivers) or CMV versus CM versus SS(barrels) than proof testing or Magnetic Particle inspections, or whether each and every rifle is tested fired, but AR folk can nit pick with the best of 'em. And good thing too.

Drunk monkeys can build ARs that work reasonably well. Not so much the beauty that John Garand created.

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Old April 27th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #6
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If CMT provides any parts to Colt, they will have to meet the specs contained in the Technical Data Package - just like EVERYONE ELSE. Colt has built over 8 Million AR15/M16s, and they developed the TDP for the M16 family. Substandard parts don't make the cut.

For suppliers, Colt's on site Laboratory even tests samples of the raw material to be used by that vendor before production can begin, then tests the finished parts that are delivered to make sure they are up to snuff - no matter who makes them, it's the same requirement. Can't meet it? - Then sell to Bushy, DPMS or Remington, etc.

So it really doesn't matter who the vendor is - the quality must meet the print at Colt's.
CC

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Old April 27th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #7
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I just submitted an inquiry to CMT. If they email me back, we'll see what they say.

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Old April 27th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #8
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Not that I would count it as gospel, but after looking through ar15.com and M4carbine.net, it is generally believed that CMT makes Colt's lowers at the very least.

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Old April 27th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #9
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Personally I've never been a big Colt fan. They make nice rifles, but I've never seen the extra quality for the extra price of the pony on the side. Stag/CMT parts have always been top quality parts which is why I keep using them. I can see why Colt would use them.




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Old April 27th, 2012, 09:44 PM   #10
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LMT > All Others. :)

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Old April 27th, 2012, 10:32 PM   #11
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Here is a partial list (I stole this off of someone else who stole it ...) of Companies:

Splintered A is: Anchor Harvey
Key Hole is: Cerro Forge
F keyhole is: FNMI / Cerro Forge
Offset Square is: Brass Aluminum Forging
LMT is: No Forge Marks, but marked LMT or L is: LMT
AF is: Alcoa Forge
C AF is: Colt Alco Forge
C MB is: Colt / Mueller Brass
? is: Cardinal Forge "Not sure what their design is?
CH is: Colt Harvey Aluminum
Crosshairs w/"AR" is: ArmaLite
CK is: Colt / Kaiser Aluminum
CM is: Colt / Martin Marietta
D is: Diemaco
DK is: Diemaco / Kaiser Aluminum
E is: Emco
EK is: EMCO/Kaiser
E MB is: EMCO/Mueller Brass
FA is: FNMI / Anchor Harvey
FK is: FNMI / Kaiser Aluminum
FM is: FN/Martin Marietta
FMB is: FNMI / Mueller Brass
K is: Kaiser Aluminum
LK is: LAR / Kaiser Aluminum
LM is: LAR / Martin Marietta
M "diamond" is: Mueller Industries
PA is: Capco / Anchor Harvey
PM is: Capco / Martin Marietta

It is not so much the company forging the Aluminum receivers but Colt following a TDP (Technical Data Package). Like I said check out the Chart: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

There is also the difference between those that manufacture forged upper and lower receivers and those that manufacture the billet upper and lower receivers.

Here is the google link to the actual chart: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...=5&output=html

I think it would be counter-productive for me to reproduce the arguments people make to rationalize what they buy. We are all human and we get invested in our decisions and, in this instance, the firearms we purchase.

The Chart is just that, a chart, to guide the perplexed (excuse the allusion to Moses Maimonides the Jewish philosopher (who wrote a Guide to the Perplexed - in Arabic), or as the Arabs called him, Musa al-Maimun).

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Old May 2nd, 2012, 09:29 AM   #12
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Well, I give up. My inquiries have come up with bupkis, thanks to the all-seeing and all-encompassing thing known as the non-disclosure agreement.

Everything else is just speculation, obviously.

The only company that makes no bones about where they get their parts is Daniel Defense. They do all parts in house.

Mods, please close if you don't mind. Thanks.

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Old May 13th, 2012, 07:44 PM   #13
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One last interjection. Colt is the original manufacturer of the AR15/M16 weapon system. They have a large, modern, ISO Factory in Connecticut, and they build the weapon there. They almost certainly subcontract certain small parts to vendors who do that best and cheapest, but the important parts of the rifle are built by Colt.
They did all the R&D and WROTE the Technical Data Package - the Book - on the AR. Forty years and 8 Million guns later, they are still the preeminent AR maker.

The idea that CMT supplies Colt all the parts and they just put them togther is somewhat silly, and I'm not sure where you got it. Colt is a MANUFACTURER - not a little shop like Daniel Defense. DD does NOT have a factory to rival Colt's - and I'm sure they subcontract most of their parts - and assemble them. CC

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Old May 14th, 2012, 04:03 AM   #14
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Colt is not the original maker, armalite started production in 1958. The government only buys from the lowest bidder

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Old May 14th, 2012, 04:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chgolaw1 View Post
Colt is not the original maker, armalite started production in 1958. The government only buys from the lowest bidder
Or from the bidder who made the most campaign contributions to those on the budget committee.

Whoops.

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