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Game Changer AR10 by POf

This is a discussion on Game Changer AR10 by POf within the M16 AR15 forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; This old Marine must be having some sentimental thoughts for the AR because there is a rifle that seriously and unexpectedly has my attention other ...


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Old March 30th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #1
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Game Changer AR10 by POf

This old Marine must be having some sentimental thoughts for the AR because there is a rifle that seriously and unexpectedly has my attention other than the M14. The P308 20" fixed stock.

Now I know what you're thinking, "BFD it's just another AR type rifle." Nope--it's not and I invite you to check out why--because it's a whole different level of rifle. In fact I was going to buy a M24 Sniper rifle, but now will likely buy this as my hunter sniper 1000 yard stick.



http://www.pof-usa.com/p308/P308-20-11H-C3.htm

Once in the link, check out the Guns and Weapons for Military and Law Enforcement

The writers say the Marine Corps should adopt it. Is that a stretch? I'm not so sure.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 09:28 PM   #2
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They are nice guns, plus with the piston drive a bit cleaner. But being a cheap SOB I went wirh a DPMS LR-308 1200.00 out the door.

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Old March 30th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #3
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That is pretty sweet!! Like the lower.

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Old March 30th, 2012, 11:25 PM   #4
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Been looking too

I don't know much about these .308 AR STYLE rifles but I do like the idea and have really liked the 2-3 I have shot.

But from what I have read and learned this is what I think I have found
1. There is no industry standard in the way these differing weapons are made from manufacturer to manufacturer.
2. Everything I have read says that thru military testing all the piston driven systems have not performed to the level they expect and have claimed.

So IMO until the military and or the manufactures come to an agreement and make these systems so they are "click and play" between one to the other like the AR I will hold off.
I think the concept of the piston driven upper is great again IMO there are to many it's and unknowns. Gotta be a reason the designer of the AR and the military chose a direct gas system over a piston drive knowing the direct system runs much hotter and is much more dirty.

I really like the idea of this and other .308 AR's but for now I'm holding off and it's added to the "that's cool" which is in line right behind the " I really want one of those" which is in turn right behind, " I need one of those and I must sell anything up to my first born child to get" list.

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Old March 31st, 2012, 04:08 AM   #5
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I just want a "kick start" brutally tough operating handle incorporated into the design to clear stuck rounds. Unlike the AR15/M16, the charging handle on the AR10 just hasn't been up to the task the few times I've needed it. So all I have in a "10" currently is an LMT L129a1 clone:


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Old March 31st, 2012, 04:44 AM   #6
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$3,099? I don't think so. I will buy a .338 Lapua bolt gun for that and still have money left over to buy another M1A.... ;)

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Old March 31st, 2012, 05:55 AM   #7
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http://www.eurooptic.com/sako-trg-42...h-jrsm235.aspx

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Old March 31st, 2012, 07:06 AM   #8
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Black, berndog makes some excellent and valid observations of the .308 AR platform family of rifles. I was very fortunate in being able to handle and fire a number of different types and speak with their owners and manufacturer reps before selecting my own.

1. There is no industry standard. This extends to the point where only Armalite manufactured rifles can be called "AR-10". To me, this isn't a big deal. There isn't an industry standard for bolt guns, either. Finding the model with the most advantages to you is the goal, whether it be the Armalite, DPMS, Stoner, or one of the dozen other makes.

2. In my experience the piston driven uppers on both the AR-15 and AR-10 types have been a disappointment, either through the quality of the manufacture or design flaws that lead to poor performance and reliability. The one exception that stands out is the LWRC REPR. Unlike other piston driven ARs that adapted their design to existing systems, LWRC designed a complete system that incorporates the best of the AR system without compromising their piston design.

Is it better than the gas impingement system? I think not. But for piston driven uppers, LWRC has no equal in terms of design, fit and finish, and performance.

The decision for me came down to 1. Accuracy. 2. Reliability. 3. Mfg. support should I need it.

I narrowed it down to either the Stoner SR-25 or the Armalite. After reading the results of the extensive testing Canada did for a SASS system, I followed the Canadians...

10 shots 'out of the box' before scope adjustment...



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Old March 31st, 2012, 07:57 AM   #9
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Thank you, gentlemen, for these posts. Yes, indeed, the array of apparatus in production and development is remarkable. I'm not ready yet to retire my steel & wood relics, but I do believe the day will come soon when at least a de facto "standard" takes hold for a next generation of shoulder-fired mid-caliber combat arms. And it will be piston-driven. I consider it a case of "stay tuned." The materials are there, the durability and performance are being proven, and the comparative ease of assembly, maintenance, and adaptability puts it only a big DOD or NATO contract away.

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Old March 31st, 2012, 08:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berndog View Post
I don't know much about these .308 AR STYLE rifles but I do like the idea and have really liked the 2-3 I have shot.

But from what I have read and learned this is what I think I have found
1. There is no industry standard in the way these differing weapons are made from manufacturer to manufacturer.
2. Everything I have read says that thru military testing all the piston driven systems have not performed to the level they expect and have claimed.

So IMO until the military and or the manufactures come to an agreement and make these systems so they are "click and play" between one to the other like the AR I will hold off.
I think the concept of the piston driven upper is great again IMO there are to many it's and unknowns. Gotta be a reason the designer of the AR and the military chose a direct gas system over a piston drive knowing the direct system runs much hotter and is much more dirty.

I really like the idea of this and other .308 AR's but for now I'm holding off and it's added to the "that's cool" which is in line right behind the " I really want one of those" which is in turn right behind, " I need one of those and I must sell anything up to my first born child to get" list.
Actually, the DPMS/KAC pattern seems to be developing into the standard, with the DoD adoption of the M110/SR25 as the replacement for the M14 DMR.

Magpul only makes mags for the DPMS/KAC pattern.

Many lower/upper manufacturers produce the DPMS/KAC pattern.

CMMG has adopted it.

Lastly, Armalite is now producing lowers on the DPMS/KAC pattern, in addition to their proprietary pattern.

While it was easy for the M16 pattern to be standardized, as it was driven by government procurement, the market seems to have spoken in favor of DPMS/KAC, in this case.

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Old March 31st, 2012, 08:39 AM   #11
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Interesting setup. Not a fan of piston systems or integrated trigger guards, but that's me. Something that always hangs me up on the piston setup is the bolt setup. On direct impingement the bolt and carrier push apart, bolt forward, carrier rearward. Piston systems just sort of drag the bolt along for the ride. I could be way off, but this seems like it would increase wear on the lugs. Probably just me...

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Old March 31st, 2012, 08:43 AM   #12
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They say they have a special tempering process regarding the lugs. A Rockwell case hardening variance using Vanadium I think. What gets me about the POF rifle is the self-lubricating metal, the manufacturer states and backs up that lubrication is not necessary, just dust it off. Also it shoots consistent .50 MOA 100 yard groups.

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Old March 31st, 2012, 09:17 AM   #13
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Have you taken a look at LMT ?? I don't own one,,but have read & heard great things about there 308 rifles !! They seem a bit more $$$ than the AR10 ! It seems like I have read that the British Army is using LMT 308 rifles,,can't recall if its Special Force guys or certain outfits,,,,I'll try and find the info !!
http://www.lmtstore.com/complete-wea...arms-guns.html Here is a review on them,http://www.defensereview.com/lmt-308...-riflecarbine/
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56340
http://www.defensereview.com/dr-phot...n-and-snipers/

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Old March 31st, 2012, 09:37 AM   #14
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Well I have a LWRC REPR and love it, especially since I got it when they were about 2,500 and paid the original price, before they decided to shoot it up some. The down side was how long it took to get, first they were having problem with a few different parts, and then all the military orders that had priority, but I got mine and have had it for a while and it works flawlessly. I especially like the side charging handle on the left side.
I donít think we are going to have a standard in AR-10ís for a long time, by the time the AR hit the market there was only one and the standard was already set.
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Old March 31st, 2012, 09:54 AM   #15
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As a former POF owner I think you'll like it. They make a nice rifle and if it's the direction you want to go than good shooting.



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