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January 21st, 2012, 02:52 PM
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#31 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NC Florida
Posts: 10,133
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Yes, they do have an entire building that is just for manufacturing & employs many more people then what you see in the show. What the series shows is their R&D facility.
HH
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January 21st, 2012, 03:05 PM
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#32 | | Scout Sniper
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: north carolina
Posts: 789
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Originally Posted by Albud3  If you look at the fourth picture in post #1, there appears to be a "knight" just below the rear sight. I first thought it was a Knight's Arm. upper, but they have a very different trademark. Does anyone here know of any company using that mark or symbol or is it just a blemish?
Candyman, Unless they have much, much more manufacturing capacity than what's being shown in the show, I seriously doubt they're making both uppers and lowers "in house". More than a just few simple CNC machines of the type shown are needed to manufacture those parts. A CNC machine for the uppers or lowers are very large with multiple-function fixtures capable of machining multiple receivers at once. After the machining, each part has to be heat treated, stress relieved, anodized and the uppers Teflon coated to be in accordance with 'Mil-Spec". That's why only a few manufacturers make receivers for almost all of the AR makers. While the lower receiver shown in the last few shows appears to made in house (quite a "fancy" mag fence on that lower [which I believe I've seen before]) it doesn't match the lowers in the pictures you posted. Maybe they're made to Red Jacket's specifications, but not in house by RJ.
wbm, The dimensional specifications for the M-16/AR-15 receivers have been set since the late '50s when Stoner designed the rifle. Even with the changes required by the military, the dimensions haven't changed. 95% of the parts from a Fairchild AR-15 will fit and work in any M-16 series. The Colt, H&R and Hydramatic lowers of the M-16A1 matched the uppers regardless of manufacturer. For the receivers to be as mismatched as these two are shows me at least two things: they're not from the same manufacturer and someone's a little "loose" in following the specifications. What else might be "close enough for government work", but not in-spec? If they cut corners on the receivers, where else were corners cut? Hopefully nowhere, but something like that makes one wonder. | That ''Knight'' you are refering to is the I.D. logo of the company that made the upper receiver forging. I dont remember which one that is but there is about three different foundries that make AR receiver forgings.
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January 21st, 2012, 03:57 PM
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#33 | | Automatic Rifleman
Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Behind enemy lines NJ
Posts: 133
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The new RJF wont have will and steph on the license thats the GAME CHANGER! I watch the show for amusement.I used to think chris was cool. Until I saw he couldnt build an ar15 and kicked Vince under the bus and ran him over!If it was not for steph chris would be the gopher for rjf.I liked the way Vince said fxxx you will! I hope Vince does good.If he opens a shop I will buy frtom him.Will they let will in the whitehouse?Or is his trip to dc to go to the museums?
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January 24th, 2012, 06:35 PM
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#34 | | Squad Leader
Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Bassfield, MS
Posts: 273
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I saw that episode, and frankly while I'm not a big fan of Sons of Guns, it's better than some of the crap on TV. If it was me and an employee acted the way Vince did I'd run his butt off. And any way you look at it, if it happened in any way that the show shows, leaving with no word and no notice, not even a "go to hell, I quit", that's just not any way I could condone it. I've quite a job with concrete on the way and had the decency to call and let the a$$hole know I was quitting. Was I ever planning on coming back, or even able to come back? No, but it's a matter of decency and I could look at myself in a mirror afterward. Frankly I don't think I could work for Will, but I can respect where he's coming from. I dought I will ever buy anything from RJF, but after the way Vince acted I know I will never buy from him.
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January 24th, 2012, 09:03 PM
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#35 | | Squad Leader
Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Virginia
Posts: 249
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Originally Posted by Albud3 While they do look good, I think I'll pass on them. The biggest reason is the fact that they used uppers and lowers from two different manufacturers and it looks as though they were painted to match colors. If I'm paying money for a semi custom AR, I expect the receivers to be from the same company. It just looks amateurish to have them mismatched as bad as those two are. I'd pass as well on the plastic MagPull MOE furniture...it just doesn't tickle my fancy. And the BUIS looks like the MagPull plastic offering; something that important should be metal. And what kind of flash suppressor is that? What is it supposed to do better than the A2 hider?
Sorry, but for a rifle that looks as if it costs at least $1200 (hard to make out the price on that tag) I'd expect more attention to detail and better build quality. For that money, I'd be able to build my own a lot better than that. | Sigh, we had FN Lowers mated to Colt uppers on our m16a3's... hell we had older colt m727's with bushmaster uppers. Recently we got those replaced with rebuilt M4's... Don't get me started on those mix master rebuilds. The finishes never matched on any of them.
But one thing is, was and probably always will be this (and the M-14 has also taught me alot of this): It isn't whether the parts match, it isn't the rollmark on the side, its the quality. The fit and finish, and how well the parts match up.
As much as I loved our FN M16a3's which we never had a problem with, a few of those mix master M4's will hold their own against them a couple of 'em are shooters. Even two "problem child" guns we had were no longer problems after swapping the uppers.
Basically what I'm getting at is don't judge a book by its cover, you have to read it. In this case at least shoot the gun before saying "I hate it".
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January 25th, 2012, 04:43 AM
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#36 | | Squad Leader
Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Ohio
Posts: 239
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I think the show is awful....and they won't get a penny of my money.
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January 25th, 2012, 05:52 AM
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#37 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,461
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I really liked how they claimed that the piston driven AR they took to NV on the last show was a "game changer". All they did was take parts other people had researched, developed, and manufactured and put them together incorrectly several times before finally getting it right and showing it to a few people.
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January 25th, 2012, 04:03 PM
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#38 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South of I-10
Posts: 56
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Originally Posted by heyjowee
I would personally never ever purchase anything with a red jacket stamp on it. The show gives me a headache and makes the gun community look pretty stupid. I wouldn't sell my company reputation for 15 min of fame.
| Well said! They have earned a very poor reputation in the firearms community and make the good folks of LA look like baffoons. They cannot go off the air soon enough!
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January 25th, 2012, 04:37 PM
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#39 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Florida
Posts: 494
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Originally Posted by 3s1k Their flash hiders look almost like YHM hiders but threaded.  | it is a YHM, heres a link to it- http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=i...2f94ebd934f6fa
The last upper they used looked like a Black Rain upper, the lower they showed them making inhouse
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January 25th, 2012, 11:47 PM
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#40 | | Squad Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Prattville, Alabama
Posts: 287
| Quote:
Originally Posted by CNelson Sigh, we had FN Lowers mated to Colt uppers on our m16a3's... hell we had older colt m727's with bushmaster uppers. Recently we got those replaced with rebuilt M4's... Don't get me started on those mix master rebuilds. The finishes never matched on any of them.
But one thing is, was and probably always will be this (and the M-14 has also taught me alot of this): It isn't whether the parts match, it isn't the rollmark on the side, its the quality. The fit and finish, and how well the parts match up.
Basically what I'm getting at is don't judge a book by its cover, you have to read it. In this case at least shoot the gun before saying "I hate it". | Agree with you 100% regarding reliability of mis-matched uppers and lowers of the Colts and FNs. I found the same with the Colt, Hydramatic and H&R -A1s we had while I was in service. But, the dimensional machining (interior and exterior) matched regardless of manufacturer or finish.
Look at the mismatched dimensions between the upper and lower around the mag lug runner and the raised area (mag well and bolt catch) in photo #6. Compare that to the bottom rifle in photo #1 where these areas match. While this may or may not affect reliability, one of those receivers may be out of spec. QC should have caught this.
What I'm talking about is that some buyers (myself included) will pass on that rifle because of such a obvious appearance fault, irregardless of the reliability factor. If you're selling a product in such a highly competitive market as ARs are now, it had better look excellent right out of the box.
If someone was to ask me about buying a Red Jacket AR I would have to tell them to do more research as I haven't any experience with them, BUT at least make sure it wasn't built by Kris  !!!
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