M14 Forum

sgtcowboyusmc

OK I need some help! Please don't eat me alive! I want to build an inexpensive M4. I have a complete lower coming. and I wanted to buy an M4 upper that doesn't come with a Bolt Carrier Group (BCG) or a charging handle I would have to buy the BCG separately . Does the bolt need to be head spaced? My only experience with the M 16 type platform is 7.5 yrs in the Corps and 6th Award Expert. What problems should I look for doing it that way? Again right now I am just looking to build an inexpensive one!
Thanks!
Cowboy

ICANHITHIMMAN

Buy a used upper or known quality dont skimp on this.

YardDogOne

no it will not need to be headspaced, AR's are what parts guns are all about

as the above poster stated, get quality parts, you actually do get what you pay for

sgtcowboyusmc

Thanks Guys! Guess I will start looking for that! Any suggestions for ones to look for and ones to stay away from?

82nd ABN

Hear is my take on the bolts and headspace on AR-15 type barrels. I have ordered a few ar barrels from krieger and I was never asked for a bolt for headspacing when ordering a M4 or AR-15 barrel. However, if you plan on using a chrome plated bolt they did require to have the bolt for headspacing. Also when I ordered my AR-10 barrel they didn't care if it was chrome plated or parkerized they wanted the bolt for headspacing. Hope that did not confuse you. From what I gather when using a regular parkerized bolt that was made to GI drawing you can get away with ordering a barrel that has the extension installed without sending in a bolt for HS.

With that said, I sent in a bolt for each of the barrels I had made for me regardless of weather or not they asked for it. I also went with wylde chambers on all the 15's and for the 10 I had them set it up with a 1.631 HS.

Are you looking to target a particular HS dimension? Are you having a barrel made for you or are you ordering off the shelf. Having one made for you by krieger is essentially the same thing as buying one off the shelf except if they are not in stock you are waiting for the production run to commence.

Silly question, why not just buy the complete BCG with whatever M4 upper you plan on buying? Is it financial constraints? The only place I have ever purchased an upper from was white oak arms. However I did supply the krieger hbar barrel.
What numer do you think is inexpensive? WOA sells a match upper for 650 complete. I would imagine that an M4 upper would come in a little less considering you are getting a flat top and you are not having a NM rear sight installed. Just for an idea they sell there NM 1/4x1/4 rear sight for $125. Do companies like bushmaster or dpms, rock river arms sell stand alone uppers? I am in the middle of building an M4 carbine but I am doing it in the A2 configuration. A friend of mine out in cali ECM14 just put an M4 upper together on the inexpensive side, you may want to send him a pm. I will see if I can get hold of him and ask him to reply to your thread.

LRB makes a real nice flat top upper. I have uppers and lowers from Armilite and WOA. I was not super impressed with the anodized finish on them compared to LRB. LRB has a very even no blemish finish compared to the other two. To tell you the truth I was a little disappointed with them. I figured it was a no brainer to get the finish even. So far between the three I have had experiences with LRB was the nicest of them all.

You may also want to consider giving Compass Lake Engineering a call. They are out of Florida. I have not had any work done buy them yet but I have heard nothing but good reviews. I spent about an hour on the phone with the owner one day talking about building and builds. If you plan on going with a standard front sight base, the triangle kind on the A2 I would use either Compass or WOA. They install the FSB in a unique way. Instead of pinning the base on they tap the two hole in the base and machine small flats on the barrel. The set screws hold the FSB in place when tightened against the machined flats. WOA uses two set scerws where as compass lake engineering will use two or four if you desire. Each company uses one on the bottom as well.
Good luck with the build!!

muskydope

It really depends on what your trying to build. If your shooting for a SHTF weapon, stay mil spec.... Offerings that top the list are; Daniel Defense, Noveske, Colt, Bravo Company, Lewis Machine Tool, and Palmetto State Armory ( who has some great deals going). These weapons offer 1x7 twist chrome lined barrels.. Full Auto carriers...Chrome lined bolts. If your looking for a tight shooter then a non- chromed lined barrel ( 1x9, 55 - 62 grain bullets) will be more accurate ( the faster the twist, the heavier the bullet it likes) at distance. The forementioned companies offer this as well, as do most manufacturers. The AR is the ultimate build from scratch weapon out there , and the possibilities are almost endless. If you do some investigating on the subject you'll find that there is only a handfull of actual manufacturers of the upper and lower recievers and barrels. They put whoevers name on it and they ( that particular company) lists that as their brand. That said, most parts fit the mil spec category, but some companies really adhere to MIL SPEC, others fill the basic needs. You will find that most will fit the bill.... But remember if you want one that your life depends on...Stay Mil Spec. and forgive a little accuracy.

sgtcowboyusmc

Thanks 82nd! I guess I should have done some searches first but my main question was the head-space question. What I have found by searching AR forums is the BCG is the most important No Skimp area of the build. From what I can gather a BCM brand BCG is the best or one of the best so that would be on top of my list. I have found them for $149.00. I also read where DSA has top quality uppers. They can be had for around $300-$325. I want a chrome lined barrel so it looks like $325.00 I can do that in a couple months. I have some neck problems and shooting my M1A's right now is not happening (And hasn't been for 4 yrs due to disc problems) but the .223/5.56 seems to be ok so I was trying to put together an inexpensive M 4. Spikes uppers are sought after but they seem to be out of stock a lot from reading the threads. They only have the LE 16" in now. This is what I have found in Shotgun news. I will look at Compas Lake and White Oak Arms. As far as Price pont I would be pushing it with the $475 the BCM bolt and DSA upper as I had to retire due to the neck issues. I would hate to sell my NM M1A and all the stuff I have for it so I want a decent shooter (M4) that I can afford. I will also call and talk to all of these places before I buy. Again thanks all for the help. One other thing I am interested in is a .22 Cal upper if anyone has any info on one of them.

Thanks again

Cowboy

82nd ABN

Cowboy you need to chat with my friend Eric, ecm14. He was a LEO and got severely hurt on the job. He has a bunch of metal in his neck holding it together as well as other areas of his spine. I will copy and past this thread to him via PM, I am sure you two will have a lot to talk about. In fact his injuries are the reason he just built an M4 as well. He was initially going to build a M14 supermatch and start competing.
I had my lower back operated on way back in 91. Had to break that lower spine jumping out of airplanes back in the day. I call it my lucky break lol. I am fortunate that I can still work the SM14 during a match.

Best of luck with that build. I am expecting my M4 barrel to show up from Krieger any day now.

sgtcowboyusmc

Yeah I had heard Palmetto was good so I went on their dite and found this. Ding, Ding Ding I think we found a winner! Yup think this is the way I will go.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/23938.php
I have a complete lower for $130.00 and a complete upper for $399.00. So under $500 for the whole kit and kaboodle! That fit in my price range. I may sell my NM M1A (To fund a couple more higher end AR's) if I determine that I won't be able to shoot it anymore but I am still hanging on to it as it is a true .75 MOA @100 yds. And that is with me shooting it. A great shooter might be able to squeeze even more out of it!

BTW DSA barely lost out. My research says it is Most probable DSA has theirs made by Spike so it was tempting to go that route. Palmetto has a great rep for a fairly new company and the groups these guys are posting are great for less expensive uppers. Bolts are chrome interior and Parkerized outside so that gets me where I wanna be!
Thanks for the help and I will post pics when I can afford to buy it along with targets so we can see what an under $500.00 AR can do!

nicholst55

I have installed or replaced barrels on at least several dozen if not hundreds of M16s of all flavors, and another few dozen AR-15s. If you're using decent quality parts, the chances of your headspace being good-to-go out of the box are very nearly 100%. I still check headspace, just because its the right thing to do.

Buying a pre-chambered barrel, especially one with a chrome-lined bore and chamber, pretty much eliminates any 'adjustments' for headspace anyway. As long as I was using a new barrel, upper receiver and bolt, I wouldn't worry about having excessive headspace - even if I didn't have any headspace gauges.

Buying a Krieger or Shilen barrel is another story. Shilen sells their AR barrels complete with the bolt they were matched to at the factory. Krieger did the same thing at one time, although I'm not certain what they do now.

AR-15s, as stated, are the ultimate parts guns, or the tinker toys of guns. They were designed to be assembled and maintained with a minimum of tools and fixtures. Reasonable care during manufacture of parts allows this to be a successful strategy.

82nd ABN

Krieger is not selling volts with barrels but do ask for one if you are going to use a bolt other than parkerized like chrome plates and they want one for chambering an AR-10 barrel

bigkicks

i just started reserching psa this morning... they do have great reviews!! and for 400 bucks with a carrier, i think im sold too!!

ArmyCPT

Bravo Company USA is another great source. Similar options, prices, etc.

All good stuff, no fluff.