Which one would You buy, and why? - Page 2 - M14 Forum

M14 Forum


Which one would You buy, and why?

This is a discussion on Which one would You buy, and why? within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by KurtC You need to decide what the firearm will be used for. Precision, Service or blasting. Do you like old school or ...


Go Back   M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > The M14

27Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Moderator Tools Display Modes

Old April 7th, 2017, 07:57 PM   #16
Snappin In
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The Great State of TX
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtC View Post
You need to decide what the firearm will be used for. Precision, Service or blasting.

Do you like old school or modern? Is a lifetime warranty important? Iron sights or optics? What type of ammo do you plan on using?

That all-Winchester SAI is gorgeous. If it is unfired, I would have to keep it that way.
I didn't answer all the questions. Iron sights is what I want for the first one of these. I can add an optic to one later. LIfetime warranty would be nice, but I've learned the hard way "Lifetime warranty" rarely means lifetime and it's so much hassle it's not worth it. I also love to tinker and not being able to upgrade something would drive me nuts.

SystemInShock is offline  
Remove Ads
Old April 7th, 2017, 08:00 PM   #17
Lifer
 
Hobo Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MT
Posts: 4,177
LRB............. Less aggravation and you will be treated with respect. I went with a "lesser known" weapon on the first round... I paid the aggravation fee for that move. The next 3 were LRB. There are somethings in life that are priceless... Just depends how much you want to pay.

Hobo

Hobo Hilton is offline  
Old April 7th, 2017, 08:11 PM   #18
Rifleman
 
gunslinger686's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: louisiana
Posts: 65
So glad I'm broke,cuz I'd be in the same boat,lol

gunslinger686 is offline  
 
Old April 7th, 2017, 08:20 PM   #19
Lifer
 
hytekrednek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northport, AL, USA
Posts: 2,637
#1 is SAI M21 Tcatical, # 2 is an all Bula rifle.

An M21 was my first. O regrets at all. Bula would be my first choice today based on what I have learned and the cost.

Thanks from sandman2
hytekrednek is offline  
Old April 7th, 2017, 08:35 PM   #20
Lifer
 
BLACKTAIL 8541's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 2,266
No doubt in my mind I would snatch up the Winchester build.

Thanks from XM25Ren
BLACKTAIL 8541 is offline  
Old April 7th, 2017, 08:58 PM   #21
Dodgin' The Reaper
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,025

Awards Showcase

A USGI barrel with USGI stock is a 2-3 moa rifle on a good day, using match ammunition. That's what they were designed for. Anything better is luck, the groups will open up as the wood fibers compress.

For hunting, I would look for something with a match barrel and a weatherproof stock. A low ARMS 18 mount and a small scope, 6x or less. That way you won't have to fiddle around with cheek riser.

KurtC is offline  
Old April 7th, 2017, 09:25 PM   #22
Snappin In
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The Great State of TX
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtC View Post
A USGI barrel with USGI stock is a 2-3 moa rifle on a good day, using match ammunition. That's what they were designed for. Anything better is luck, the groups will open up as the wood fibers compress.

For hunting, I would look for something with a match barrel and a weatherproof stock. A low ARMS 18 mount and a small scope, 6x or less. That way you won't have to fiddle around with cheek riser.
Hmmm. That Bula in my list has a NM barrel and a unitized gas system. The stock is wood, but I would want that anyway. I'd buy another stock for hunting for bad weather.

SystemInShock is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 04:26 AM   #23
Professional Slacker
 
ripsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtC View Post
A USGI barrel with USGI stock is a 2-3 moa rifle on a good day, using match ammunition. That's what they were designed for. Anything better is luck, the groups will open up as the wood fibers compress.

For hunting, I would look for something with a match barrel and a weatherproof stock. A low ARMS 18 mount and a small scope, 6x or less. That way you won't have to fiddle around with cheek riser.
That's about the third time I've seen that posted in as many days. Not. If you are talking rack grade, run through the barracks and grab one at the end of the row, maybe. It' s not luck and I routinely get solid 1-1.5 moa shooters with the combo you listed of g.i. stock and barrel. Too many to ignore. There is nothing wrong with a good g.i. barrel for accuracy. Stocks either.

It's all about the guy building it and knowing the relationship between the two and how to get them to work in harmony. Wood fibers compressing and ruining accuracy, I don't believe that is what I have seen. They are over 60 years old. I think they have compressed about as much as they are going to.

Buying an unknown rifle with no guarantee of accuracy from seller, yeah, your statement has merit about g.i. used components, but new g.i. barrels and stocks built correctly, I would put up against any M14 rifle made today for accuracy, including rear lugs at 500yds.. I have both, they shoot the same, one with medium weight and lug, one all stock g.i. One bedded, one not.

There was a discussion about the same thing on M1's and some guys were saying the best you can get is 3-4 moa. Not. I've never built one that didn't shoot moa, again, rack grade is different.

Obviously I'm talking about benched and bagged testing, not offhand or match style shooting. We all know the heavier rifle will win in that circumstance.

ripsaw is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 05:22 AM   #24
Dodgin' The Reaper
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,025

Awards Showcase

Even if you were to find a pristine, new in the box, all USGI M14 from 1960, there is no guarantee it will shoot any better than 3 moa. Chrome lined USGI barrels were simply not designed to shoot any better. The National Match Rifle program was started to improve upon this. The EBR program brought it into the 21st Century.

I routinely get 1.5 or better groups with my rifles as well. But they are not 10 shot, every day consistent, which is what I would want for hunting at 300 yards (like the OP is looking for). If the cold bore shot cannot consistently hit 1.5-2 moa, I wouldn't use it for hunting anything further than hogs at 100.

The rifles that myself and TNW50CAL have posted in the PX are original style collector's items, not 300 yard hunting rifles. The OP needs to decide which direction he wants to go. I suspect he is new to the rifle and doesn't yet understand all the compromises involved with the platform. $2-3k is a helluva investment. I'm just trying to make sure he finds something that lives up to his intended use.

KurtC is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 05:31 AM   #25
Old Salt
 
Killashrub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Polk County, Florida
Posts: 1,455
If all are in "like new" quality it would be a tough choice between Winchester or Bula. I would probably go with Winchester. If the Winchester is decently used then bula would take the lead. But it depends. Does the OP want a collectors piece or a something more usable accuracy wise.

Killashrub is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 06:00 AM   #26
Lifer
 
XM25Ren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 3,960

Awards Showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by SystemInShock View Post
Another ignorant person here begging the goodwill of the community.

I've saved forever and have enough for 1 M14. My Garand said it needed company, so who am I to argue?

My options are thus:

LRB Arms $2800.00 or so for their low end.

http://m14forum.com/px/303554-bula-defense-m14.html From pdcrig $2150.00

SAI M1A all USGI 1995 TRW Barrel from Kurtc $2250.00

http://m14forum.com/px/308194-all-winchester-m1a.html From tnw50cal $2050.00

I have read so much and done so much research I feel like I'm taking a test tomorrow and suddenly can't remember anything at all.

I know any/all of them may sell the minute I press Submit but I have to try. Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules by asking.

Thank you.
Remember I'm spending my money so for me hands down, the only choices would be Kurt's or tnw50cal's rifles they are beauties and with hard to find correct parts! If you decide to find the parts and build one on a forged receiver your cost will easily exceed the $3500.00 dollar mark! Do the smart thing and buy one of those two!

XM25REN

Thanks from M14vrp
XM25Ren is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 06:15 AM   #27
Lifer
 
XM25Ren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 3,960

Awards Showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtC View Post
Even if you were to find a pristine, new in the box, all USGI M14 from 1960, there is no guarantee it will shoot any better than 3 moa. Chrome lined USGI barrels were simply not designed to shoot any better. The National Match Rifle program was started to improve upon this. The EBR program brought it into the 21st Century.

I routinely get 1.5 or better groups with my rifles as well. But they are not 10 shot, every day consistent, which is what I would want for hunting at 300 yards (like the OP is looking for). If the cold bore shot cannot consistently hit 1.5-2 moa, I wouldn't use it for hunting anything further than hogs at 100.

The rifles that myself and TNW50CAL have posted in the PX are original style collector's items, not 300 yard hunting rifles. The OP needs to decide which direction he wants to go. I suspect he is new to the rifle and doesn't yet understand all the compromises involved with the platform. $2-3k is a helluva investment. I'm just trying to make sure he finds something that lives up to his intended use.
I found this post to be a very honest assessment, decide what it is you want from your M14/M1A.

Ren

XM25Ren is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 07:12 AM   #28
Professional Slacker
 
ripsaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtC View Post
Even if you were to find a pristine, new in the box, all USGI M14 from 1960, there is no guarantee it will shoot any better than 3 moa. Chrome lined USGI barrels were simply not designed to shoot any better. The National Match Rifle program was started to improve upon this. The EBR program brought it into the 21st Century.

I routinely get 1.5 or better groups with my rifles as well. But they are not 10 shot, every day consistent, which is what I would want for hunting at 300 yards (like the OP is looking for). If the cold bore shot cannot consistently hit 1.5-2 moa, I wouldn't use it for hunting anything further than hogs at 100.

The rifles that myself and TNW50CAL have posted in the PX are original style collector's items, not 300 yard hunting rifles. The OP needs to decide which direction he wants to go. I suspect he is new to the rifle and doesn't yet understand all the compromises involved with the platform. $2-3k is a helluva investment. I'm just trying to make sure he finds something that lives up to his intended use.
I read what he intends to use it for and understood it. ...and I am not arguing or trying to derail his thread with this, but you are not understanding what I wrote above. I even typed it twice. Rack grade. Then you write in first emboldened above that there is no guarantee with a n.o.s. rifle. I already agreed with that in my post, but you left out the part about accurizing the existing unit to perform properly by someone that knows what they are doing and does it for a living. Which is what I wrote.

You keep going back to the same old paradigm that they weren't designed to do any better. That may be their original intent or requirements for acceptance, but that doesn't mean they aren't capable of doing much, much better, which is what you keep posting. That is not true.

Second emboldened above and proof of what I write. All the current barrels like LRB's saco-lowell reproductions, bula's, criterions, green mountain, shillen, all of them, are made to the same print, with many of the same old methods that were used back then, and I have data proving that all will give outstanding performance "if properly assembled." That's the point I am trying to get across to the OP.

In other words, if he decides to buy either of the g.i. build rifles, he can expect them to perform for anything he wants to use it for, if the barrels are in spec and not shot out already, and he has someone that knows how to make it shoot to his expectations look at it and accurize it for him.

10 shots with consistency under moa ? Have you seen Tonyben's moa challenge thread ? Granted, people used everything under the sun, mediums, heavies, fluted, wmmw, bedded, lugged, etc, etc....but, it is doable, and possible to do consistently.....can everyone do it ? No. Can every builder do it ? No.

ripsaw is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 07:35 AM   #29
Snappin In
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The Great State of TX
Posts: 42
Maybe I'm approaching this the wrong way. Maybe I should buy a good shooter that is fun to take to the range, not super expensive so I can beat it up and learn on that one while I save for a higher end rifle that I can take hunting. I'm not looking for a collector's type rifle at the moment. Seems like that Bula is more and more what I'm looking for at the moment in a used rifle. I love this forum.

SystemInShock is offline  
Old April 8th, 2017, 07:54 AM   #30
Grunt
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: san antonio
Posts: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by SystemInShock View Post
Unfortunately the LRB is at the very top of what I can afford at the moment.
I can't hardly believe gun joker has an m21 right now for $2299. Prolly a Douglas instead of the krieger barrel but who cares at that price. Smoking deal.

sandman2 is offline  
Reply

  M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > The M14

Moderator Tools
Display Modes




Top Gun Sites Top Sites List