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M14 Back In The Rotation??

This is a discussion on M14 Back In The Rotation?? within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Wasted ammo I think the soldiers that prove them selves as competent with a rifle should get to pick, M4 or M14. ...


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Old April 6th, 2017, 06:30 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Wasted ammo View Post
I think the soldiers that prove them selves as competent with a rifle should get to pick, M4 or M14. They both have good points and bad. It's seems to me a mixed bag would be better than everyone with a m4. But what do I know. If your going to put a man in a combat situation you should at least give him a rifle he feels confident with.

Just my 2 cents.
Ideal system would be to have some sort of "rack grade" type 308 AR10 that could be issued as a DMR. However this is the government we are talking about so they will do a 10 year, 4bil dollar study to find that their 8.5lb 308 dream rifle is a 13lb piston H&K (because pistons make everything better).

I personally would argue for the SCAR, there's nothing wrong with it aside from it being "new" but then the same people who will spend billions on studies to find that the m4 is "fine" are the same ones who would say the SCAR costs too much.

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Old April 6th, 2017, 06:53 PM   #32
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Did you guys get into the comments section? Short of the genius who says bolt guns are the way of the future warrior, I found this little gem by a guy most of you will know-

"The path of least resistance may well be to adopt an existing 7.62mm Government Off The Shelf (GOTS) weapon. It means less oversight and is quicker to put in action.”

The TACOM M14EBR-RI, and Smith Enterprise, Inc. ‘Crazy Horse’ M14 rifles can be put into action faster, and in larger numbers than any of the 4 rifle mentioned. We could field 100,000 of them rather quickly.
Frankly the EBR stock was a good first step but there are better options now for an improved m14.

For full precision the JAE stock would be ideal, and for the DMR role the m14.ca stock chassis is a very good choice.

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Old April 6th, 2017, 07:55 PM   #33
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Did you guys get into the comments section? Short of the genius who says bolt guns are the way of the future warrior, I found this little gem by a guy most of you will know-

"The path of least resistance may well be to adopt an existing 7.62mm Government Off The Shelf (GOTS) weapon. It means less oversight and is quicker to put in action.”

The TACOM M14EBR-RI, and Smith Enterprise, Inc. ‘Crazy Horse’ M14 rifles can be put into action faster, and in larger numbers than any of the 4 rifle mentioned. We could field 100,000 of them rather quickly.
Bwahahahahaahahahahaahaha

Yeah Ron Smith is gonna field 100k rifles under contract when they can't even fulfill a group buy.

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Old April 6th, 2017, 08:21 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Thor View Post
Did you guys get into the comments section? Short of the genius who says bolt guns are the way of the future warrior, I found this little gem by a guy most of you will know-

"The path of least resistance may well be to adopt an existing 7.62mm Government Off The Shelf (GOTS) weapon. It means less oversight and is quicker to put in action.”

The TACOM M14EBR-RI, and Smith Enterprise, Inc. ‘Crazy Horse’ M14 rifles can be put into action faster, and in larger numbers than any of the 4 rifle mentioned. We could field 100,000 of them rather quickly.
And another reason to deport the klinton cronies , We already had them bought and paid for until they were fed to captain crunch

I skimmed through quite a few of the comments

For a minute there I thought I was on the arfcom forum

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Old April 6th, 2017, 08:57 PM   #35
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For a minute there I thought I was on the arfcom forum
Yeah, I know what you mean. However, the fact of the matter is that an AR style rifle is the most likely candidate for the Interim Battle Rifle - assuming that the program is not canceled like so many other small arms programs. I'd personally like to see M14's fulfill that role but it is highly unlikely. Currently, the M14 EBR's outnumber all the other 7.62 gas guns in use but they have some issues. One being the weight and this is a very significant issue. I'm glad that at least there is consideration for fielding a 7.62 battle rifle. I have always felt that the statistics concerning average engagement ranges has mislead small arms planners. It is true that the vast majority of engagements occur at 300m or less but that doesn't mean that longer engagements don't happen and when they do, an infantryman with a rifle that is range limited is in very deep trouble.

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Old April 6th, 2017, 11:43 PM   #36
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I think they should get whatever works best, for whatever they determine their needs are.

The m14 in a particular blackfeather chassis, which if you believe the claim, is 8.2 lbs unloaded.



Doesn't seem that unwieldy considering the amplitude of $#!+ it's slinging.

I'm all for getting them something better, if there is such a thing, if it can be developed, as an all around package, but considering that it seems that the major short-coming of the m14 is that it is difficult to mass produce it as a 1 moa rifle, given the abilities of the average soldier, especially under stress, how important is that compared to the reliability you get from a pretty simple yet elegant design that allows a lot of slop, grit, and is seemingly tolerant of irregular cleaning, and they're not exactly unpleasant to shoot. First time I shot my M1a, with a plain old synthetic stock, I got a big fat grin on my face, not just because it made a nice sequence of booms, but because it felt SWEET. Little bit of something to let you know it's there, but hardly punishing.

Not that I know anything, but if you're actually talking about a relatively short-term replacement, a modern m14 seems like a pretty awesome solution. A friend who served in Iraq referred to it as his 'weapon of choice.'
They don't all have to be DMR's.

When they sort out what they really want in a 6.5mm intermediate cartridge, or whatever, and take their time to get it right, cool. Until then, to me, the sensible temporary measure seems to be staring them in the face.

But, like I said, I don't know anything. I just think really loud.

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Old April 7th, 2017, 08:16 AM   #37
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I think they should get whatever works best, for whatever they determine their needs are.

When they sort out what they really want in a 6.5mm intermediate cartridge, or whatever, and take their time to get it right, cool. Until then, to me, the sensible temporary measure seems to be staring them in the face.

But, like I said, I don't know anything. I just think really loud.
Unfortunately, we're talking about the government and it's bureaucracy here... they MIGHT take the TIME, but getting it RIGHT is an entirely different matter. Like the M16, it will be fielded with built in KNOWN defects, so the supplier/manufacturer can "fix" it and provide the repair parts after it's in service ... AT A PRICE, of course.... JMHO, but the LAST people that the politicians and suppliers are thinking about are the grunts that have to carry their "miracle weapon" into combat... their real concerns are CHEAP INITIAL COST per unit, PRICEY repair parts and modifications, and MAJOR KICKBACKS for all.....

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Old April 7th, 2017, 10:41 AM   #38
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The reality is that the government has been trying for years to find a suitable 7.62 NATO replacement for the M14. Some have proven to be pretty good weapons, like the M110 and the SCAR17, but the M14 is still in use after 60 years. I think the issue is that they are always looking for something new and improved that won't cost as much.

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Old April 7th, 2017, 10:48 AM   #39
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Reviewed some of the after-action reports coming back from Iraq/Afghanistan early on for the Marine Corps. Many statements about needing added knockdown and heavier rounds for distance, especially in Afghan. Now that Mattis is SecDef I'm sure there will be a more receptive ear at the Pentagon.

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Old April 7th, 2017, 11:30 AM   #40
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It shocks me US soldiers don't have a suitable rifle, the most fundamental weapon a soldier should have, yet we've spent billions on a jet that can take off vertically without a runway... except in sandy conditions.

I'm sorry, but dredging up M14s built 50 years ago would just be another indication that something has gone terribly wrong with military procurement. If it's the best we can do, then so be it... but I think our soldiers deserve a modern rifle that works.

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Old April 7th, 2017, 01:00 PM   #41
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AR platforms are a conglomeration of new materials and old technology. There is really nothing new to launch bullets. Some weapons systems do it better than others, but the M14 set a very high standard that is hard to surpass. I'm sure the military could drop it at any time, but it will be some time before they come up with system that actually does it better. On the other hand there is a lot to be said for smart bombs...

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Old April 7th, 2017, 01:09 PM   #42
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I love the old girl, but there is no way that bringing back the M14 is the "economical" solution.

All the tooling has been shipped to Asia, and the current manufacturers (LRB, BULA etc) could not turn out the number of rifles required for the effort.

By the time you run the costs on making new rifles en mass it doesn't make sense to use an older design.

You could maybe make an argument for a product improved design (closed reciever, lighter weight materiel's etc), but there are no idle factories sitting around ready to spit out USGI Spec m14's. It doesn't make sense to build new factories to churn out an older design.
Hey, lets get the Chinese to make them for us!

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Old April 8th, 2017, 09:04 PM   #43
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Buy a license to make the Turk 7.62 rifle. Done.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...assault-rifle/

Accuracy for an issue rifle is more weighted towards the consistent quality of the ammunition than the rifle itself.


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Old April 8th, 2017, 09:36 PM   #44
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What the hell is this?

From the article:

"First up is the M14 Enhanced Battle Rifle. This option, isn’t even really an option."


I'd like to rub this guy's nose in some fresh dog poop.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #45
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Interesting

http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017...=militarymemes

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