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How many rounds w/o cleaning until complete failure?

This is a discussion on How many rounds w/o cleaning until complete failure? within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; 30,000 in one day in one rifle? That seems like a marketing gimmick to me....


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Old March 19th, 2017, 02:08 PM   #16
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30,000 in one day in one rifle? That seems like a marketing gimmick to me.

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Old March 19th, 2017, 02:23 PM   #17
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After each range outing (~200rounds) I would clean the gas system and notice a lot of carbon. I'm using mostly hirtengerber ammo. This leads me thinking what if I needed to grab my gun and go, who in their right mind would grab the gas wrench and tools to clean the gas system from carbon build up out on the field.
Chance favors the prepared mind. Get a checklist together.
Heck, I have a checklist just to go to the range for the day.

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Old March 19th, 2017, 02:36 PM   #18
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30,000 in one day in one rifle? That seems like a marketing gimmick to me.
Glad I wasn't loading mags that day!

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Old March 19th, 2017, 02:43 PM   #19
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I have a picture of an M14 dated September 14, 1961 that shows an M14 on top of a pile of 30,000 rounds fired in one day in the same rifle at the Springfield Armory. This was part of the standard testing for both the M1 and the M14. Impressed the heck out of me. It doesn't say if it was semi-auto or full auto-my guess was semi.
It was a 30,000 round endurance test. It was not completed in one day. It was a mix of semi-automatic and full-automatic fire. The rifle was cleaned periodically, I believe every 2,000 to 4,000 rounds. I think I have a report on it somewhere.

A 30,000 round endurance test was never part of the "standard testing" for the M1 or M14. This test was a publicity demonstration, necessitated by the number of quality issues from the users, which had gotten the ear of Congress. Springfield needed to show that the design was solid.



The M14 had a very unfortunate development, development delays, years of testing, delays in production, poor initial quality, and worst of all very poor public relations. Remember the Berlin crisis of 1961? Newspapers were full of pictures of US Army troops looking exactly like they did in WW2, 16 years earlier, while other NATO countries and worse the "Commies" armed with modern weapons....


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Last edited by lysander; March 19th, 2017 at 02:58 PM.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 02:48 PM   #20
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Some one that know how should send this to the new guy that ask why a m14!

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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:01 PM   #21
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Chance favors the prepared mind. Get a checklist together.
Heck, I have a checklist just to go to the range for the day.
Is it laminated?

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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:04 PM   #22
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I cannot believe that the first item you are considering disposing of is your cleaning gear! That cleaning gear is the only thing that will keep your rifle running. All the other items contributing to additional weight are all unnecessary when it comes to being able to continue to put rounds down range. Your priorities need to be re-evaluated.

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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:12 PM   #23
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Glad I wasn't loading mags that day!
46 years ago I was a hold over after basic awaiting my security clearance for a special AIT. Rather than being bored for 6 weeks a bunch of us volunteered to be the night time aggressor force against the Infantry advanced trainees. We would spend the afternoons loading mags (M16 A1) until we had our backpacks full to the limit of what we could carry. Then we would report to the armory and pick up TWO rifles each because one would get so dirty on the blanks it would hopelessly jam about half way through the night.

A deuce and a half would drop us off in the back hills after dark and we would run those poor grunts all over the woods all night. I can remember coming across mountains of their brass where they had their pigs set up.

In the morning when we got back we would report to the armorer and each hold out our two rifles. He would take them and just shake is head.

I have wondered that if we were firing the M14 with so many blanks if we would have only needed one instead of two. Maybe, from the what the posts in this thread say.


Last edited by Stamp Mill; March 20th, 2017 at 01:28 PM.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #24
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I ain't ever shot a blank in anything but a 22 pistol and that was training dogs to retrieve. Those where rimfire but the absents of a bullet would leave the barrel in filthy shape. Bullets do foul the barrel but blanks are worse IMHO.

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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:18 PM   #25
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Is it laminated?

Yep, the main one is laminated.
The others aren't because I write on them.

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Old March 19th, 2017, 05:05 PM   #26
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I ain't ever shot a blank in anything but a 22 pistol and that was training dogs to retrieve. Those where rimfire but the absents of a bullet would leave the barrel in filthy shape. Bullets do foul the barrel but blanks are worse IMHO.
TOTALLY worse! Those experiences on the aggressor team convinced me to never fire blanks in my own firearms. Ever. But there, it was Uncle Sams firearms. And I didn't have to clean them! And they were Stoner gas guns. Dirty by design. Even with real bullets.

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Old March 19th, 2017, 06:01 PM   #27
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If your looking to save weight load your ammo on 5 round stripper clips and store in cloth bandoleers. This way you an keep your cleaning gear but carry fewer mags.

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Old March 20th, 2017, 08:27 AM   #28
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Lysander, thanks for the correction. There wasn't any background on the picture so I filled in the details-wrongly it seems. I'm going to down load you information and put it on the back of the picture. again, thanks.

Quote from picture: " M14 rifle laying on top of 30,000 rounds of brass all fired in one day in this test. M1 rifles were subjected to this same type of testing. Note the M1 style butt plate. Part of the 32 crates of ammo used are shown below. (Springfield Armory photos dated September 14, 1961)"


Last edited by boomerpusher; March 20th, 2017 at 08:38 AM. Reason: information from picture
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Old March 20th, 2017, 09:12 AM   #29
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I am curious to know what possible scenario could arise where you do not have the ability to clean the gun but have to shoot thousands of rounds?...
Zombies!

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Old March 20th, 2017, 11:23 AM   #30
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Guns magazine in May 1994 issue did a torture test between a SAI M1A and a Poly Tech M-14S. The SAI M1A was shot 5,000 rounds in one day. 4,000 rounds were shot in 4 hours. The Poly Tech M-14S gave up the ghost at 440 rounds. The springs were toast. The ammo used was FNM 82 and 83.

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