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TRW Fake GI Bolts?

This is a discussion on TRW Fake GI Bolts? within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I'm not an expert, so maybe I should be satisfied to just stay in my lane and shut my yap. That said, I'm looking at ...


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Old March 18th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #31
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I'm not an expert, so maybe I should be satisfied to just stay in my lane and shut my yap.

That said, I'm looking at ZB, ZH, and ZJ TRW bolts to compare it to and the roll markings look very much alike except not as deep. I believe the "frame" we're seeing is from too much pressure being applied, hence what looks to me like deeper than normal lettering.

I say it's real. Out of the hundreds of thousands-if not millions-of TRW bolts fabricated, this isn't out of the realm of possibility. At worst, it's a minor cosmetic flaw that would hardly be noticed by the end user.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFan View Post
I'm just not seeing it fellas. I'm sort of like Ren and constantly compare after market parts with that of USGI. The aftermarket ones are not as refined in their machining and tend to have sharpened edges compare to the USGI counterparts. Just look at the bolt face, plunger and any other area of the bolt for that matter.

Everything about this bolt looks exacting to the dozen of HR, TRW and SA bolts I have. To me the stamping does seem a bit heavy but somewhere in the production process they have to press the number into the forging.

If this is a knockoff this is the best one ever. Someone just needs to buy a bolt direct from 7.62 (TRW) and see if the machining and stamping are matching.

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Old March 18th, 2017, 11:42 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDS View Post
...The photos do not show if the bolt in question has the Rockwell test dimple.
Hey friend, I think you may have missed it in the pictures provided. It's there and perhaps you just overlooked it. It's in the second pic of post #9 just before the shank/top of bolt narrows.

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Old March 18th, 2017, 11:52 AM   #33
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Real enough. Maybe a little heavy on the pressure applied, but real.

M= magnifux

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Old March 18th, 2017, 02:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFan View Post
Hey friend, I think you may have missed it in the pictures provided. It's there and perhaps you just overlooked it. It's in the second pic of post #9 just before the shank/top of bolt narrows.
Taking a second look I see it now.

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Old March 18th, 2017, 02:32 PM   #35
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I can't believe I'm one of the few that have seen this before on REAL USGI TRW bolts. Or that I should have taken pictures to prove it latter. Here are 2 pictures that I found with a simple google search from a 2011 listing on armslist. Note the framing on the side next to the 7.
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File Type: jpg 2909779_01_m14_m1a_trw_bolt_640.jpg (16.8 KB, 95 views)
File Type: jpg 2909779_02_m14_m1a_trw_bolt_640.jpg (19.4 KB, 95 views)

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Old March 18th, 2017, 02:41 PM   #36
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I appreciate all the input from all the guys on this. Any time I see a part that looks out of the ordinary I automatically bring it into question. I'm getting a good education on parts here.
Thanks guys

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Old March 18th, 2017, 02:58 PM   #37
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This is an issue of aesthetics, not originality. Much ado about nothing ....

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Old March 18th, 2017, 06:38 PM   #38
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There is one other possibility I can think of. This bolt might have been stamped just after the die was reset, retooled , or a new lot number. The stamped or die set for the forging might have been brand new at that time so the numbers would appear deeper. I will not speculate as to the origin of the bolt just to explain that inserts in dies are used in places like that to allow for changes with out having to build a new die.

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Old March 18th, 2017, 09:26 PM   #39
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It looks to be a heavy strike showing the face edges ?

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Old March 19th, 2017, 05:50 AM   #40
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Given that Bert and Greg give their seal of approval, it must be good to go.

For what its worth I have been wrong before and probably will be wrong again.


Ren

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Old March 19th, 2017, 05:53 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 82nd View Post
I appreciate all the input from all the guys on this. Any time I see a part that looks out of the ordinary I automatically bring it into question. I'm getting a good education on parts here.
Thanks guys
Me too.
Ren

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Old March 19th, 2017, 07:44 AM   #42
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Finding out good info on a part is always welcome, Even if I am wrong.
Good add to my knowledge base.

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Old March 19th, 2017, 01:31 PM   #43
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Anyone notice this seller has another NIW TRW bolt for sale, same heat lot, no impression around the roll mark?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/630187482

In my non-expert opinion both are real deal.

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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:46 PM   #44
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I was reading this thread, have seen this vendor selling these bolts for some time, and it suddenly just hit me. A couple of weeks ago, I went to the gun show run by the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club, Albany OR. I was going primarily to meet with someone, referred to me by a good friend, who has some collectible stuff he wanted to give away to someone who would make good with it. Thanks to my friend, I was the lucky recipient of some unusual, Colt marked Browning .30 cal links. Nothing major, just kinda cool.

So reading along here, I just realized that the gentleman who gave this stuff to me is from Tornado Technologies. Not sure if he is the owner, but I had the impression he is, or else is one of the top guys. I don't get that nosy, but he did talk about what they do. He was a very decent, stand up sort of guy. Wish I'd had the connection in my brain about the M14 TRW bolts with that company. But then, I have his e-mail and phone number!

Anyway, I have no reason to think that these are anything but legit, based on my impression of the gentleman from the seller company on gunbroker.

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Old March 20th, 2017, 08:09 PM   #45
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Hey fellas, we're the guys selling the bolts.
I'm not interested in getting in some pissing match with those who made the accusations, but the notion that one of the bolts we have listed is fake because the drawing number roll mark is too deep is a bit of a stretch.
Other than the stamp being deeper on one, every other aspect of them is identical, I mean identical. Anyone who's local to us is more than welcome to come and examine them in person. If they're fakes, they went to a lot of trouble to age the packaging, duplicate the mag particle marks etc.

These are the last two we have, they came from two different small lots we acquired and have been slowly selling on Gunbroker. Half came from the estate of a well know NFA dealer here in Oregon, Victor Fogel. We purchased them from the State of Oregon (as he died without a Will) along with a large amount of other firearm parts about 4 years ago.

The other half came from a good mate of mine on the east coast who's been sitting on them since around 1993. All were wrapped in the same silver rust preventative paper with the same tape. Paper was old and crispy and shows age.

I'd be more than happy to list pics of the others we have sold, but unfortunately they were sealed and unopened, so we can't compare the markings. We opened 1 from each lot to confirm the manufacturer before listing them, and these are those two.
As I mentioned we've sold a number of these on GB and I've never had any one return them or otherwise contact us to say they had a problem or were unhappy.

As the description for the listings state, we use studio flash photography for our pics, this makes every little mark, scratch etc show up like dogs balls. When I went out and looked at the bolt in question, the marks that everyone is concerned about are no where near as pronounced under natural light...but they are still there.

Why did we list them at a penny? We list pretty well all our auctions at a penny. We've found as long as you list a product, describe it accurately and take good photo's so folks know what they're going, market value will be reached in most cases.
If anyone has any other question, go ahead and ask, and I'll be happy to answer.

cheers
Mike

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