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Trigger change?

This is a discussion on Trigger change? within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by gman556 Okay cool, I will definitely take it apart and try that tonight. I do know that when it is in the ...


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Old January 7th, 2017, 04:44 PM   #16
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Okay cool, I will definitely take it apart and try that tonight.

I do know that when it is in the rifle and does not reset all the way forward I cannot manually move it forward at all it just stays right at the breaking point.
Either something is dragging the trigger/sear (cracked trigger pin?), or the backside of the hammer hooks were stoned to reduce the 1st stage, requiring the emery cloth fix.

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Old January 7th, 2017, 04:48 PM   #17
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http://shop.shootingsight.com/M1-M14_c2.htm
tonyben has a youtube about replacing the trigger

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Old January 7th, 2017, 08:59 PM   #18
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Okay I just took it out of the stock and reinserted it in just the action and I still get the same results.

I also took it outside of the action and it looks like it is not seating fully back into the hammer hooks when it does this and with it out of the action I can actually pull it all the way forward to fully reset.

I took some pics below and outlined in red the bottom of the hammer hooks in before and after pics.

The first pic is of it fully seated into the hammer hooks.

The second pic is what happens when it does not fully seat and let the trigger reset all the way forward.

I wonder if I were to try that Emery cloth trick from above if that would stop this from happening and smooth things up a little bit. It almost feels like the hammer spring is too strong and causing it to bind.




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Old January 7th, 2017, 09:16 PM   #19
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I can't tell from the pics, but when the 1st stage is pulled, the sear should come to contact the back hammer hooks, and the front hammer hooks should have approximately 20 thou of engagement with the trigger. Pics hard to see but it looks like there is no sear contact with the rear hammer hooks? Or is that just the camera angle.

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Old January 7th, 2017, 09:30 PM   #20
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What is likely going on is that someone did a poor trigger job, and your hooks are unequal lengths, so the back hook that you cannot see has dropped off the edge, while the front hook is still engaged. Very dangerous, as you can remove your finger from the trigger, think you are safe, but a jar or bump could set it off.

Problem is that there is just enough tension that once one hook drops off, it does not want to re-engage.

The emery trick can put enough sear engagement back into the trigger that you hit the second stage while both hooks are still engaged. That way, if you do not take the shot, the trigger will fully re-engage/

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Old January 7th, 2017, 09:58 PM   #21
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What is likely going on is that someone did a poor trigger job, and your hooks are unequal lengths, so the back hook that you cannot see has dropped off the edge, while the front hook is still engaged. Very dangerous, as you can remove your finger from the trigger, think you are safe, but a jar or bump could set it off.

Problem is that there is just enough tension that once one hook drops off, it does not want to re-engage.

The emery trick can put enough sear engagement back into the trigger that you hit the second stage while both hooks are still engaged. That way, if you do not take the shot, the trigger will fully re-engage/
Okay thank you, that's what I was wondering.

You are definitely right about it being dangerous!

Like I said earlier it had doubled on me a few times when I thought I was doing everything correct.

Praise the Lord that I did not have a squib load during one of those doubles!

I think I'm going to try the emery cloth trick for now just to get it safe but I have to be honest that I'm probably always going to be a little skittish about this trigger from now on and will probably be upgrading to one of your triggers in the near future.

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Old January 8th, 2017, 07:48 PM   #22
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I completely disassembled the trigger group and tried polishing some of the surfaces very lightly just in case there were burrs that were causing the hammer hooks to hang up on the sear and not let it release all the way forward, but the problem still existed.

Got a Bula Defense M-14 trigger and hammer on the way to tide me over until I can afford a Shooting Sight trigger and hammer.

If anybody's interested I'll keep this thread updated as to how I make out with the new trigger and hammer.

Thanks from nf1e and Rich D
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Old January 9th, 2017, 03:47 AM   #23
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Always interested in seeing problems solved. If it can happen to one of us, it can happen to us all.
Thanks for the thread.

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Old January 9th, 2017, 09:02 AM   #24
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Always interested in seeing problems solved. If it can happen to one of us, it can happen to us all.
Thanks for the thread.

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I forgot to add that like Shooting Sight stated it looked like the hammer hooks were uneven and that maybe the inside one that you can't see was hanging up on the edge of the seer not letting the trigger return all the way to its forward position.

I'm not really sure if I could tell whether it was just bad from the factory or that may be somebody who owned it before me did a bad trigger job on it.

I'm sure I probably could have just sent it back to Springfield but I don't want to take the chance of having it come back with cheap cast parts.

The edges of the hammer hooks looked pretty rough and not very uniform when inspecting them closely with a magnifier.

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Old January 9th, 2017, 09:09 AM   #25
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Perhaps when you get new parts, change one at a time, to help isolate the faulty part.

Thanks from gman556
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Old January 9th, 2017, 09:10 AM   #26
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Easiest way to make sure it works is to replace with M1 trigger/sear and Hammer. These are available from CMP for about 50 bucks.
I had a bunch of SAI trigger groups that were unusable until these parts were changed out.
The ones that I bought cheap online were advertised as new. The darn things were never formed properly. The hooks were not injected with enough material to fill the mold and as a result were irregular in shape. Quick change to USGI and they are happy now.

Thanks from hammonje
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Old January 9th, 2017, 11:14 PM   #27
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Perhaps when you get new parts, change one at a time, to help isolate the faulty part.
Good idea, thanks!

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Old January 9th, 2017, 11:22 PM   #28
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Easiest way to make sure it works is to replace with M1 trigger/sear and Hammer. These are available from CMP for about 50 bucks.
I had a bunch of SAI trigger groups that were unusable until these parts were changed out.
The ones that I bought cheap online were advertised as new. The darn things were never formed properly. The hooks were not injected with enough material to fill the mold and as a result were irregular in shape. Quick change to USGI and they are happy now.
Thanks.

I already checked the CMP out and for just a few bucks more I got a new production Bula trigger and hammer from Bula Defence.

I just want to make sure these new parts work before I drop the coin on a Shooting Sight Trigger and hammer.

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Old January 10th, 2017, 06:40 AM   #29
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If I recall, SAI parts are investment castings, which means you first injection mold a wax part, then dunk it in ceramic, burn out the wax, and have a single use mold you can pour steel into.

Problem with molding wax is that after you inject it, the mold has to sit there for multiple minutes while the wax cools and solidifies. And as you all know from playing with candle wax at the dinner table, there is a temperature range over which the wax will be solid, but still soft.

So the temptation for a molder to get more production out of his mold is to eject the wax as soon as possible, and so it may come out a little soft. Which also means it can get bent or deform before it is fully cool.

I have bought a trigger from SAI before that had a visible bend in the top section, so the sear edges were no where near lined up. I don't know if that is what happened here, but is certainly sounds plausible.

I believe BULA is NOT using investment casting, possibly powdered metal, so they are less likely to get distortion issues.

Thanks from Rich D
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Old January 10th, 2017, 07:07 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by nf1e View Post
Easiest way to make sure it works is to replace with M1 trigger/sear and Hammer. These are available from CMP for about 50 bucks.
I had a bunch of SAI trigger groups that were unusable until these parts were changed out.
The ones that I bought cheap online were advertised as new. The darn things were never formed properly. The hooks were not injected with enough material to fill the mold and as a result were irregular in shape. Quick change to USGI and they are happy now.
I was going to buy from CmP but the part descriptions seem to be lacking and I wasn't sure if it was M1 parts or not. They look like the part visually but they seem to be part number people there over desciptors.

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