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This is a discussion on XM25 Stock pictures within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Phil McGrath How come the front ferule isn't clearance like NM rifles? Its not like a lot of debris can get in.. ...


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Old April 17th, 2017, 08:23 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
How come the front ferule isn't clearance like NM rifles? Its not like a lot of debris can get in..
It was meant for an XM25, just not needed.

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Last edited by XM25Ren; Yesterday at 03:54 PM.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 08:56 AM   #32
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Quote:
take a look at The Long Range War, Sniping in Vietnam by Peter Senich at page 245-246 for the Brookfield AN/PVS-4 adaptor. Also notice the hooded NM apertures on these early 25s. Later specs by Mitch eliminated use of hooded apertures.
Here's page 245:


Here's page 246:


You can clearly see the hooded NM rear apertures in both pics circa 1992. My guess is that the hooded apertures were omitted from subsequent builds given that they are a bit taller than non-hooded apertures, so you can run into clearances issues with the scope's ocular hitting the hooded aperture - esp if its not all the way down - its happened to me on my ART II scope. Perhaps someone can ask Mitch that question, but that is my best guess regarding this minor change in XM25/M25 builds (as you can see on the top pic - their isn't much room to spare...)

What I find interesting in those two pics is the fact that those are early "smear" pattern camo stocks, similar to the M40A1 stocks the USMC got in the late 1970s/early 1980s time period. I had assumed most M25 stocks were black with some forest camo pattern, but based on this picture I think the Army must have used whatever stocks they had on hand, including the earlier "smear" pattern stocks for M25 builds.

Quote:
Very interesting thread for those thinking of what McMillan stock to use for their XM25 project.

I can't wait to see what the folks who bought in on the BPTco. liners come up with
Based on what I have seen, there may have been bit of variety in XM25/M25 stocks, based on pics from this forum and a book or two.

1. Black stocks with USGI M14 sling swivels and Pachmayr buttpad (see below picture of Mr. Mateiko circa 1988).

2. Black stocks with front and rear studs only, and with a Pachmayr buttpad (M1AOH6 picture from 2016 on this forum):


3. Black stock with USGI sling swivel and USGI M14 buttplate (I suspect this is an M25 and not an XM25 rifle. I will note it is missing its rear sight completely. I presume this was a Navy SEAL rifle with its associated Navy NSN #1005-LL-L99-5690):


3. Greenish "smear" pattern forest camo stock as seen above, no idea what sling hardware or buttplate/buttpad, as this is unfortunately not shown in pics. The 1992 era pics refer to the rifle as an "M25" so maybe they were not used on the earlier XM25, but hard to say either way.

4. Forest camo (predominantly the dark "greenish" earlier pattern, possibly with a bipod stud installed in front of sling swivels. (Here's Ren's super nice XM25 stock as found on this forum):


5. Forest camo ("later") pattern from I presume early to mid-1990s era is 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 evenly distributed dark green/light green/brown pattern with Pachmayr butttpad or USGI buttplate. This pattern is seen on Toki's XM25 stock with early liner, and also on what I think was a civilian XM25 that Mitch built in the 1990s. It has Pachmayer buttpad, and studs only front and rear. Here's the picture M1AOH6 posted last year that shows this "later" forest camo pattern:
(Note: my M25 project is also using this forest camo pattern, but with a standard M14 buttplate and sling swivels)

So their are several stock options that could be considered somewhat "correct" for an XM25 just based on these pics (even Mitch used an M2A stock for his personal XM25 build with a 4-color camo scheme, but I digress...).

As for me, assuming I get the stock liner, I'm going to base my prospective XM25 project on the prototype XM25 rifle that Mitch is holding in his profile pic. from this forum, which he noted was taken at Ft. Devens in 1988 (picture is transposed/flipped):



...appears to be a black McMillan M1A stock with standard M14 sling swivels but with the Tom Kapp-specified Pachmayer buttpad. It doesn't have a front bipod stud, but apparently this was added to some of these rifles at a later date, so I might add a stud to mine as well, not sure at this time. (I doubt I'll be able to find an early black McMillan from that era with the faux stock screw inlet, so I'll end up ordering one from McMillan at some point with the Ft Deven cut), I do have a 1907 sling set-aside for a XM25 project (or an M40A1 project): "MRT 12/86"

Anyhow, the XM25 project will hopefully be my major project for 2018...as I won't finish my current M25 project until this summer.


Last edited by Random Guy; April 18th, 2017 at 05:13 PM. Reason: misc typos corrected
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Old April 18th, 2017, 04:14 AM   #33
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Love to find a smear McMillan M14 stock. Kelly McMillan is active on another forum I visit. I wonder if he made the "K" patterns on the M14 smears like he did on the M40A1 smears.

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Old April 18th, 2017, 04:17 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Guy View Post
Here's page 245:


Here's page 246:


You can clearly see the hooded NM rear apertures in both pics circa 1992. My guess is that the hooded apertures were omitted from subsequent builds given that they are a bit taller than non-hooded apertures, so you can run into clearances issues with the scope's ocular hitting the hooded aperture - esp if its not all the way down - its happened to me on my ART II scope. Perhaps someone can ask Mitch that question, but that is my best guess regarding this minor change in XM25/M25 builds (as you can see on the top pic - their isn't much room to spare...)

What I find interesting in those two pics is the fact that those are early "smear" pattern camo stocks, similar to the M40A1 stocks the USMC got in the late 1970s/early 1980s time period. I had assumed most M25 stocks were black with some forest camo pattern, but based on this picture I think the Army must have used whatever stocks they had on hand, including the earlier "smear" pattern stocks for M25 builds.



Based on what I have seen, there may have been bit of variety in XM25/M25 stocks, based on pics from this forum and a book or two.

1. Black stocks with USGI M14 sling swivels and Pachmayr buttpad(see below picture of Mr. Mateiko circa 1988).

2. Black stocks with front and rear studs only, and with a Pachmayr buttpad (M1AOH6 picture from 2016 on this forum):


3. Black stock with USGI sling swivel and USGI M14 buttplate (I suspect this is an M25 and not an XM25 rifle. I will note it is missing its rear sight completely. I presume this is/was a Navy SEAL rifle with its associated Navy NSN #):


3. Greenish "Smear" camo stock as noted above, no idea what sling hardware or buttplate/buttpad, as this is unfortunately not shown in pics. The 1992 era pics refer to the rifle as an "M25" so maybe they were not used on the earlier XM25, but hard to say either way.

4. Forest camo (predominantly the dark "greenish" earlier pattern, possibly with a bipod stud installed in front of sling swivels. (Here's Ren's super nice XM25 stock as found on this forum):


5. Forest camo ("later" pattern from I presume early to mid-1990s era is 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 evenly distributed dark green/light green/brown pattern with Pachmayr butttpad or USGI buttplate. This pattern is seen on Toki's XM25 stock with early liner, and also on what I think was a civilian XM25 that Mitch built in the 1990s. It has Pachmayer buttpad, and studs only front and rear. Here's the picture M1AOH6 posted last year that shows this "later" forest camo pattern:
(Note: my M25 project is also using this forest camo pattern, but with a standard M14 buttplate and sling swivels)

So their are several stock options that could be considered somewhat "correct" for an XM25 just based on these pics (even Mitch used an M2A stock for his personal XM25 build with a 4-color camo scheme, but I digress...).

As for me, assuming I get the stock liner, I'm going to base my prospective XM25 project on the prototype XM25 rifle that Mitch is holding in his profile pic. from this forum, which he noted was taken at Ft. Devens in 1988 (picture is transposed/flipped):



...appears to be a black McMillan M1A stock with standard M14 sling swivels but with the Tom Knapp-specified Pachmayer buttpad. It doesn't have a front bipod stud, but apparently this was added to some of these rifles at a later date, so I might add a stud to mine as well, not sure at this time. (I doubt I'll be able to find an early black McMillan from that era with the faux stock screw inlet, so I'll end up ordering one from McMillan at some point with the Ft Deven cut), I do have a 1907 sling set-aside for a XM25 project (or an M40A1 project): "MRT 12/86"

Anyhow, the XM25 project will hopefully be my major project for 2018...as I won't finish my current M25 project until this summer.
My black McMillan M14 stock has no selector cutout, so wondering if this was also a variant.

Thanks from Rich D
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Old April 18th, 2017, 05:33 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokiwartooth View Post
My black McMillan M14 stock has no selector cutout, so wondering if this was also a variant.
When I spoke to McMillan 2 weeks ago, I was told if no selector cut out, it's an M1A stock. All GI ones had the cut.

Thanks from nf1e, conditionone and XM25Ren
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Old April 18th, 2017, 06:11 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by m1sniper View Post
When I spoke to McMillan 2 weeks ago, I was told if no selector cut out, it's an M1A stock. All GI ones had the cut.
This is my understanding as well. OTOH, If you wish I think you can send it back to Mcmillan to have the selector inlet cut.

Thanks from XM25Ren
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Old April 18th, 2017, 06:32 AM   #37
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No cutout simply means its a stock that went to the civil market.

Ren

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Old April 18th, 2017, 09:47 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Majikani View Post
This is my understanding as well. OTOH, If you wish I think you can send it back to Mcmillan to have the selector inlet cut.
Actually prefer no selector cutout.

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Old April 18th, 2017, 06:57 PM   #39
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I also had return emails from Kelly McMillan and I asked about sending a Mc stock (if I found one I liked) to have the cut done and his reply was no. I was surprised with that answer. Maybe he was trying to get me to buy a new one from them????????? I don't know.

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Old April 19th, 2017, 04:01 PM   #40
 
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If one wanted their stock to have a Pachmayr recoil pad, is the "500B Black Base Recoil Pad" the best choice of what's currently available?

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-ac...prod26444.aspx



It looks like the large size (1.92" x 5.75") would be large enough for an M14 stock.

Thanks from XM25Ren
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Old April 19th, 2017, 04:33 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
How come the front ferule isn't clearance like NM rifles? Its not like a lot of debris can get in..
NM clearance was originally for early rear welded, unitized cylinders(USMC).
Became a bad habit, reduces stiffness of U.
XM25 did not need it with front welding.
Intent was not to cut it out.
Clearance is clearance, no point in removing what is not needed to be.
With barrel tension, no droop for cylinder to contact stock.

Thanks from XM25Ren and Majikani

Last edited by ROLLER BOLT; April 19th, 2017 at 06:04 PM.
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Old April 19th, 2017, 05:12 PM   #42
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Well ive got 3marine Double lugged Mcmillan stocks that came off the Marine shooting teams guns and they all got the clearance cut on the front ferrule,and a Navy SSR Mcmillan stock that has the same done to it,so not sure on that one

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Old Today, 06:08 PM   #43
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Looks like I got a line on a McMillan GI, black, NM, Marine Corps profile... The Ft Devin cut, is it just basically hogging out the interior enough for the BPT liner to fit, and be epoxied in?

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Old Today, 06:52 PM   #44
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Send your stock to McMillan and they will perform the Ft. Devens cut for you, then you need to find someone who can bed the BPTco liner properly. With so much money invested, its a job that needs to be done right.

Ren

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