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Bolt and Bolt roller questions w/ pics

This is a discussion on Bolt and Bolt roller questions w/ pics within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by edwardm That said, if anyone wants to lay some specific dimensions on me to go and measure, I'm glad to. It's only ...


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Old February 18th, 2015, 07:15 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
That said, if anyone wants to lay some specific dimensions on me to go and measure, I'm glad to. It's only going to get me more edumuhcated that much sooner!
Unfortunately any dimensional measurements of a real USGI M14 compared to any commercial "M14" will be moot. There simply is too much dimensional slop in the commercial receivers to gather any useful data from other than the commercial receivers are typically NOT up to USGI specs.

Henceforth why building each commercial receiver is a 'custom' build all to itself.

More useful info will be gathered from your upcoming range experience.

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Old February 19th, 2015, 06:53 AM   #17
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Well, the rifle used to cycle just fine. The only reason it went back was due to the bolt tail peening. The bolt was replaced, headspaced to 1.632, and sent back. Would a new bolt cause feeding problems? A new barrel I could see being a possible source of issues.

How can each M1A build be a custom build, as far as dimensions go? Looking at it from a different angle, plenty of parts are drop-in for these rifles. Compare that to most 1911's (which mostly don't follow original design drawings or intent), where almost nothing is drop-in.

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Originally Posted by Jersey Devil View Post
Unfortunately any dimensional measurements of a real USGI M14 compared to any commercial "M14" will be moot. There simply is too much dimensional slop in the commercial receivers to gather any useful data from other than the commercial receivers are typically NOT up to USGI specs.

Henceforth why building each commercial receiver is a 'custom' build all to itself.

More useful info will be gathered from your upcoming range experience.

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Old February 19th, 2015, 03:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
Well, the rifle used to cycle just fine. The only reason it went back was due to the bolt tail peening. The bolt was replaced, headspaced to 1.632, and sent back. Would a new bolt cause feeding problems? A new barrel I could see being a possible source of issues.

How can each M1A build be a custom build, as far as dimensions go? Looking at it from a different angle, plenty of parts are drop-in for these rifles. Compare that to most 1911's (which mostly don't follow original design drawings or intent), where almost nothing is drop-in.

Well that just mortally sux, unfortunately I can't offer any help other than to "call Springfield"

Are the mags still "seating up" good?

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Old February 19th, 2015, 03:57 PM   #19
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Why would I call Springfield? The rifle has been there and back, already. Bolt replaced with a forged one, headspaced, and test-fired (quite a bit, I think, from the brass smears on the face of the new bolt).

The magazines seat up fine. They did before, and they do now. Why would that change with a bolt replacement? The magazines lock in to the release (rear) and the tail end of the op rod spring guide - neither of those parts was changed.

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Well that just mortally sux, unfortunately I can't offer any help other than to "call Springfield"

Are the mags still "seating up" good?

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Old February 19th, 2015, 04:03 PM   #20
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Sorry I posted, good luck...

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Old February 19th, 2015, 04:07 PM   #21
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Not looking to ride anyone. I'm asking because I don't know any better. Would a bolt swap change magazine retention? I can see many things the swap could screw up, but magazine retention is not one of them. Basically, I'm asking if I'm missing something.

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Sorry I posted, good luck...

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Old February 19th, 2015, 06:22 PM   #22
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[quote=edwardm;1523745]
Quote:
How can each M1A build be a custom build, as far as dimensions go? Looking at it from a different angle, plenty of parts are drop-in for these rifles.
Yes, and no. When you have built a few of them from scratch, you will see how sometimes so called "drop in" parts may have to be fitted and/or swapped around to find the particular part that "fits" the best.

When you are building one up from scratch it is optimal to have several examples of certain parts that are prone to fitting issues on commercial receivers to find the one that fits the receiver/barrel combo the best.

Not everyone can afford that- obviously, and not everyone already has a deep parts stash.

Operating rods and rear sight assemblies, and of course bolts, are common parts that may or may not just "drop in".

The rear sight pocket is an area of the commercial receiver that is commonly not machined correctly, and one result of that is that the rear sight base may overhang the area where the witness marks are for windage. Or, a base may fit loosely without excessive spring adjustment. Having a few of those on hand during a build to see which one fits the best is good. Sometimes it can be a PITA "fitting" those parts to get it right.

For whatever reason, operating rods may bind up at any point in their travel when tried in a given receiver/barrel combo. They may bind up on the rail that they ride on, or another point is at the end of travel on the spring/spring guide, particularly if you are using a NM guide. One example will fit tighter than another even with NOS op rods.

Lastly, is the bolt, nice to have a few of those around when doing a build to get the best fit as well. Some bolts will just not work in a given receiver/barrel combo while others will "drop in" with a headspace that is desired and a little lapping for lug contact.

USGI M14 receivers were made to such tight tolerances that the aforementioned parts could be swapped around from rifle to rifle without issues.

Even small parts such as connector locks, clip guides, and bolt stops can have fitting issues on commercial M14 receivers.

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Old February 21st, 2015, 05:00 PM   #23
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Thanks, that's a heck of an education right there. Sounds like I have a distinct liking for the '1911 of rifles'. That's fine by me, though. Since I'll never get my hands on a real M14, I'm OK knowing that parts aren't all just drop-in.

As a follow-up, took the Scout to the range this morning. I degreased it last night, and lightly re-greased for operational use, cleaned out the bore of all the preservative oil, and made sure the gas plug, cylinder and trigger group were all snug.

I put 80 rounds of foreign surplus - MEN94, FNB, and MAL86. On average, unfired, they only headspaced +.0015" above LC11, LC13, and GGG04. She ran like a Swiss watch until about round 35, when my groups went from 2MOA to 8-10MOA. The rear sight knobs had loosened up, so I went to a mechanical zero on the rear, tightened everything up, walked it back in with another 5 rounds, reset my zero and spent the next 40 rounds knocking bowling pins off the rack at 100yds.

Maybe I got lucky, maybe it's put together right, maybe the stars aligned - I won't speculate at this point. What I know is that it shoots, and shoots accurately.

I pulled the action out of the stock and checked the bolt. The tail has lost a little bit of its finish, but no peening. I know 80 rounds isn't going to tell me too much, but it looks like I'm on the right track.

Still amazed that the Scout, with it's shorter barrel, will keep up with the Standard, and in some cases, outshoot the Standard.

I think it's time to start selling off the AR's.

[quote=Snowlion;1524077]
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardm View Post


Yes, and no. When you have built a few of them from scratch, you will see how sometimes so called "drop in" parts may have to be fitted and/or swapped around to find the particular part that "fits" the best.

When you are building one up from scratch it is optimal to have several examples of certain parts that are prone to fitting issues on commercial receivers to find the one that fits the receiver/barrel combo the best.

Not everyone can afford that- obviously, and not everyone already has a deep parts stash.

Operating rods and rear sight assemblies, and of course bolts, are common parts that may or may not just "drop in".

The rear sight pocket is an area of the commercial receiver that is commonly not machined correctly, and one result of that is that the rear sight base may overhang the area where the witness marks are for windage. Or, a base may fit loosely without excessive spring adjustment. Having a few of those on hand during a build to see which one fits the best is good. Sometimes it can be a PITA "fitting" those parts to get it right.

For whatever reason, operating rods may bind up at any point in their travel when tried in a given receiver/barrel combo. They may bind up on the rail that they ride on, or another point is at the end of travel on the spring/spring guide, particularly if you are using a NM guide. One example will fit tighter than another even with NOS op rods.

Lastly, is the bolt, nice to have a few of those around when doing a build to get the best fit as well. Some bolts will just not work in a given receiver/barrel combo while others will "drop in" with a headspace that is desired and a little lapping for lug contact.

USGI M14 receivers were made to such tight tolerances that the aforementioned parts could be swapped around from rifle to rifle without issues.

Even small parts such as connector locks, clip guides, and bolt stops can have fitting issues on commercial M14 receivers.

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Old May 15th, 2017, 12:46 PM   #24
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Question.....as I know nothing about these rifles.....but just bought one. I see in the picture (pic 2) a nick in the upper left side of the receiver. I have a similar one on my M1A. Is that the way they designed it? I was cleaning the rifle and some cloth got stuck in it as the nick is pretty sharp. Any input on this please?

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Old May 15th, 2017, 01:06 PM   #25
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Pics would really help, could be a lot of things. Take the op rod off push the bolt into battery, then see if I piece of paper will go under the roller. With the oprod off this part of the receiver is a lot more visible.

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Old May 15th, 2017, 02:05 PM   #26
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I was talking about pic#2 of the original post.

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Old May 15th, 2017, 02:10 PM   #27
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There should not be a nick there. I commented on your original post.

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Old May 15th, 2017, 02:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Wasted ammo View Post
Pics would really help, could be a lot of things. Take the op rod off push the bolt into battery, then see if I piece of paper will go under the roller. With the oprod off this part of the receiver is a lot more visible.
see pic
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20170515_160352_1494882489406.jpg (5.03 MB, 30 views)

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Old May 15th, 2017, 02:12 PM   #29
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Yep but I don't see the nick or what you are concerned about. Always remember that rifle has a lifetime warranty .

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Old May 15th, 2017, 02:22 PM   #30
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So sorry.....my bad. I'm new and trying to learn how to post/answer.

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