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USGI M14E2/M14A1 and it's Parts

This is a discussion on USGI M14E2/M14A1 and it's Parts within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I understand both sides of the argument, but to me, I spent to much time and money on this stuff not to enjoy it and ...


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Old June 14th, 2014, 07:08 PM   #16
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I understand both sides of the argument, but to me, I spent to much time and money on this stuff not to enjoy it and use it as much as possible. I like to get the most bangs for my buck with the m14 stuff, so just looking at these things is out of the question for me. I guess that makes me more a shooter than collector.

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Old June 14th, 2014, 07:24 PM   #17
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Gentlemen, first and foremost their is no right or wrong when it comes to collecting or shooting. The shooter will never understand what makes a collector tick, and a collector will never understand why someone would want to put wear on a rare piece of history!

I like to shoot, have been all my life, but I see no need in shooting something that cannot be replaced. My next build will be an all Winchester with a new SAK barrel, it will be correct and it will be a shooter, one I hope my son and I will enjoy for a very long time.

But please don't think that just because I have rifles I choose not to shoot, that I don't enjoy them as much as the shooters enjoy theirs. There is pride in ownership and in the knowledge that you have something that most will never own.

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Old June 14th, 2014, 08:16 PM   #18
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The first picture is of an E2 stabilizer that was said to be fake but after careful and detailed study it appears to be an original USGI third generation E2 stabilizer by Herlo Engineering,the second is also a real USGI E2 stabilizer by Herlo Engineering Co. of CA.



This is the real one.

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Last edited by XM25Ren; June 21st, 2014 at 01:54 PM.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 08:47 PM   #19
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I do thank you for taking the time to share your fine rifles and parts. Your taste in parts is superb, expensive though. Yea I am jealous, but hey, I can't have it all.

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Old June 14th, 2014, 10:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renisin View Post
The first picture is of an out and out fake E2 stabilizer and to the untrained eye these two are identical but if you look closer you will see marked differences, the second is of a real USGI E2 stabilizer.



This is the real one.
I'm going to disagree with you on that one Ren. As someone who left finger parts in a machine shop no one piece is exactly the same as another. No raw casting is the same as another. A brand new drill bit cuts better than one that has drilled a 100 holes, same with a endmill ,etc. If a part has +/- .060 for a tolerance, that is a 1/8 inch difference in length between the high side and low side but both parts are within tolerence. In looking at both those pictures you're looking at no more than .010 to .015 of a inch and your stabilizer would have the same finish as mine. Note how the MPI is stamped at exactly the same angle with the same distance between letters and the letters are the same size. They were not hand stamped,they were machine stamped--you have one machine and one fixture to do that--that cost money for the set up.

In the thread from Bill Ricca he said the guy in Michigan didn't stamp his repo's like that but maybe he started--he didn't know one way or the other. The fact remains the later real ones were stamped with MPI,something I didn't know when I asked Bill, but I do now. So either Bill is wrong about mine or wrong about yours, you yourself PM'd me and said the only difference between mine and yours was the pictures you posted above and what you've shown is well within normal variance of parts. In the end I only paid $80.00 for mine.

I remember a certain TRW barrel that I said right from the beginning was reparked just from looking at the pictures--other's here said it wasn't just from looking at the pictures and who was right. Please don't use the 2 pictures you posted as proof of a real and a fake stabilizer, you might be right or you might be wrong.

Take a look at this auctionarms auction---6097529 . Note the part number numbers. Those numbers are stamped exactly(or dam close to it) the same as your's and mine --note the 1 at the end, etc. Note it is stamped MPI.

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Last edited by tnw50cal; June 14th, 2014 at 10:54 PM.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 11:56 PM   #21
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Greg, if you look closely at those pictures you will see that there is much more going on, there are other differences in those two photos. Bill Ricca did not say why he thought yours was a fake and mine is real, but he did say that, going on the premise that mine is as he said, "good to go", I have looked for the differences between yours and mine and there are many, not just the way the MP I is stamped or the milling marks or the lack thereof, though I believe that is significant. They are two different stabilizers.

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Old June 15th, 2014, 01:12 AM   #22
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I have two of the stabilizers that are numbered only "7791661" in the same location - both from good sources that have never missrepresented anything to me before - and no "MPI" mark. One came with a beautiful stock and M2 bipod, w/sling, as a set. Nothing in the set looks faked. Renisin and friends, anybody else with one like mine? CC

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Old June 15th, 2014, 07:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
I have two of the stabilizers that are numbered only "7791661" in the same location - both from good sources that have never missrepresented anything to me before - and no "MPI" mark. One came with a beautiful stock and M2 bipod, w/sling, as a set. Nothing in the set looks faked. Renisin and friends, anybody else with one like mine? CC
No Sir, I have a fake similar to what you discribed, pictures are a great resourse, post lots.

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Old June 15th, 2014, 07:36 AM   #24
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This.





Not this.


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Last edited by XM25Ren; June 15th, 2014 at 08:19 AM.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 08:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Col. Colt View Post
I have two of the stabilizers that are numbered only "7791661" in the same location - both from good sources that have never missrepresented anything to me before - and no "MPI" mark. One came with a beautiful stock and M2 bipod, w/sling, as a set. Nothing in the set looks faked. Renisin and friends, anybody else with one like mine? CC
Real 7791661 marked E2 stabilizers are marked 7791661 on the other side of the swing arm and have a wedge shaped piece that goes into the back of the bayonet lug.

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Old June 15th, 2014, 08:41 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renisin View Post
Greg, if you look closely at those pictures you will see that there is much more going on, there are other differences in those two photos. Bill Ricca did not say why he thought yours was a fake and mine is real, but he did say that, going on the premise that mine is as he said, "good to go", I have looked for the differences between yours and mine and there are many, not just the way the MP I is stamped or the milling marks or the lack thereof, though I believe that is significant. They are two different stabilizers.
Ren, there are going to be differences from day to day as parts are made. I posted 5 crappy pictures of mine , you posted great pictures of yours from many different angles that I then compared to mine right down to the little grind mark on the top in the back of the stabilizer to remove the casting web(the picture Bill wanted of mine and I never provided). So if there are many differences what are they? Yes I do see some but not many. I also see differences between yours and the picture of the one new from wrap that was sold by Ozark surplus and listed on the CMP forum for sale a year or two ago for $150.00. For instance it's not stamped MPI and is machined on the flats where the swing arm attaches and not left as a raw casting as both mine and yours are.


You know it doesn't really matter, no one could convince you that the TRW barrel was reparked until you had it in your hand. Then you knew it was and got some of your hard earned money back.

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Last edited by tnw50cal; June 20th, 2014 at 09:57 PM.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 09:04 AM   #27
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Greg,

There is no way to tell from one photo if it is good to go. If you have more pictures of the CMP picture Please share.

The auction arms E2 looks to be fake, color,milling and angles don't match up, but then one pictures really doesn't say much.

I still don't understand why you keep talking about MP1 markings as if they are not on the legit E2 stabilizers, Bill Ricca said, saw that on mine and still stated it is good to go.


Last edited by XM25Ren; June 15th, 2014 at 09:35 AM.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 09:27 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renisin View Post
Greg,

There is no way to tell from one photo if it is good to go. If you have more pictures of the CMP picture Please share.

The auction arms E2 looks to be fake, color,milling and angles don't match up, but then one pictures really doesn't say much.-------I agree there, about the one picture thing.

I still don't understand why you keep talking about MP1 markings as if they are not on the legit E2 stabilizers, Bill Ricca said saw that on mine and still stated it is good to go.
Ren it's not MP1 it's MPI and some real type 3 E2 stabilizers had that mark and some didn't. I'm pointing out differences on known USGI stabilizers. Bill in the thread you took my pictures from said that the guy in Michigan had not marked them like that before, maybe he started that is why I keep talking about it--keep up.

I'll point out that a member here who has written a excellent book with many updates said over and over in those books that a S inside a L stamped on the heel of a stock meant it was manufactured somebody other than Sachs and Sons, a fact he just learned after the release of all these new in box E2 stocks.


Just cause Bill says it's so don't make it so.

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Old June 15th, 2014, 09:41 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnw50cal View Post
I'll point out that a member here who has written a excellent book with many updates said over and over in those books that a S inside a L stamped on the heel of a stock meant it was manufactured somebody other than Sachs and Sons, a fact he just learned after the release of all these new in box E2 stocks.
It was H. Sacks & Sons, Inc. (Brookline, MA), a wood furniture manufacturer, that produced M14 and M14A1 stocks with the S under the upside down L marking.

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Old June 15th, 2014, 10:08 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnw50cal View Post
Ren, there are going to be differences from day to day as parts are made. I posted 5 crappy pictures of mine , you posted great pictures of yours from many different angles that I then compared to mine right down to the little grind mark on the top in the back of the stabilizer to remove the casting web(the picture Bill wanted of mine and I never provided). So if there are many differences what are they? Yes I do see some but not many. I also see differences between yours and the picture of the one new from wrap that was sold by Ozark surplus and listed on the CMP forum for sale a year or two ago for $150.00. For instance it's not stamped MPI and is machined on the flats where the swing arm attaches and not left as a raw casting as both mine and yours are.


You know it doesn't really matter, no one could convince you that the TRW barrel was reparked until you had it in your hand. Then you knew it was and got some of your hard earned money back. Post up a picture of that new from wrap Winchester op-rod you got off gunbroker and we can try and figure out why it has the little dod stamp under and towards the end of the of the 61188 and not centered under the 61188.
Its the bottom one, though there is no DOD stamp as it is an early op-rod without the hole in the end.


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