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USGI M14E2/M14A1 and it's Parts

This is a discussion on USGI M14E2/M14A1 and it's Parts within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Thought this would be an informative addition to the OPs topic taken from the thread "Automatic Fire at Fort Ord", with thanks to LEID. Due ...


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Old July 6th, 2014, 08:27 AM   #136
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E2 Stock Liner

Thought this would be an informative addition to the OPs topic taken from the thread "Automatic Fire at Fort Ord", with thanks to LEID.

Due to the closed bolt VS open bolt design, the M14E2/M14A1 would have a hard time keeping up with an M1918A2 BAR in a SAW role much less a sustained fire role. But look at the difference is weight you would be lugging around; almost double with the M1918A2 BAR. For those not familiar, the WW2 M1918A2 BAR is a MASSIVE hunk of steel especially as compared to the relatively petite but equally powerful M14E2/M14A1. That is the very reason you rarely see an M1918A2 BAR in an actual WW2 combat photo with the bipod attached. Yeah, Yeah: I hear you: FACT: .30 CAL is a bit more powerful than the 7.62MM NATO. But taking into consideraton the higher cyclic rate of the M14E2 gives it a firepower advantage over the M1918A2 BAR IMO. That is, if you can deliver said higher cyclic rate into the beaten zone with an effective cone of fire. If the front handgrip design on the M14E2/M14A1 would have been developed just a bit further, I would think the weapon would have been much more effective/durable. And S.A. Govt. Arsenal experimented with muzzle brakes on the original select fire M1918 BMR/BAR going all the way back to the post WW1 era. S.A. long ago realized that an automatic rifle needed all the help it can get to be combat effective. The M14E2 stabilizer works OK but I would think much better designs could have been developed with a serious look at brake technology on smaller field pieces/AT (Anti Tank) rifles/Nazi German FG 42 (Paratroop Rifle 1942). I noticed a brake on the end of one of Art's M14 rifles; I very much doubt Art put that brake on his rifle without good reason. And why the M14E2/M14A1 rate of fire (ROF) was not slowed down slightly is also still an unanswered question mark in my mind. Several of us, pretty sure "Different" is one, have experimented with slowing automatic ROF down to the 600RPM range. The technology for that was developed for the M1918A2 BAR prior to WW2; they added a small orifice in the end of the then-standard non-ported gas cyclinder accomplishing (2) things: Slowing ROF slightly and allowing at least some of the carbon to be expelled from the gas system. If that sounds familiar, that is pretty much the same mod. some perform on their M14 gas plug. Whoever came up with that M14 gas plug mod. may well have had experience with the BAR.

L-R: Early WW1 M1918 BMR (Browning Machine Rifle) to Post Korean War M1918A2 BAR (Browning Automatic rifle) Gas Cylinders with Colt's original WW1 non-ported & NESA's WW2 ported design on left. SA Govt. Arsenal developed this design for the M1918 BAR. This simple mod. could possibly have been adapted to the M14E2/M14A1 gas plug to slow ROF & help control carbon buildup in the gas system. As seen below, the technology was definitely known at SA as far back as pre-WW2.



Edit: Given the (2) machine screws attaching the M14E2 front handgrip assembly thru deeply countersunk attachment points in the barrel channel of the original walnut E2 stock without the added reinforcement of the E2 metal front handgrip stock liner (E2 liner), it is amazing to me that the original walnut stocked M14E2/M14A1 could endure 12-13 rounds per second of automatic fire for any length of time. Properly installed on the M2 bipod sling swivel & front handgrip hanger pin, the M14E2 sling definitely added substantial support to an otherwise substandard design.

Early S.A. marked walnut M14E2 stock: Unserviceable due to the (2) 10-32 slotted pan head machine screws with external tooth lock washer pulling completely thru forend NOT reinforced with E2 liner:


CAL (Canadian Arsenals Limited, Long Branch Canada) birch M14E2 forend with E2 liner attached by (2) 10-32 slotted flat head machine screws with external tooth lock washer. The stock itself is specifically inletted for the E2 liner. The early SA walnut stocks were not originally inletted for the E2 liner for the simple reason that the liners had not been designed yet. But I have seen several early SA walnut E2 stock with the E2 liner installed as an ADD-ON. The E2 liner is VERY stiff & affords a vast improvement in stock strength over the original walnut E2 stock forend design. Unfortunately, this did not address the relatively weak front handgrip assembly design itself. Treeline took care of that just recently with the introduction of their E2 front rail.


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Old October 14th, 2014, 04:35 PM   #137
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Here is my center piece in its final form.














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Old October 14th, 2014, 07:54 PM   #138
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Centerpiece? Does this mean we are all invited for supper?ps. Love the slotted handguard !
Classy

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Old October 15th, 2014, 11:40 AM   #139
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Looks like u used the same stuff on your table.

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Old October 15th, 2014, 12:10 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by wags2161 View Post
Looks like u used the same stuff on your table.
Jim you never fail to entertain, but I did absolutely nothing to this original stock, it is in the same condition as when it left Springfield Mass.

Needless to say I am very proud of this one of a kind rifle.


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Old October 15th, 2014, 01:18 PM   #141
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Surprising to me, I have now seen (2) nice S.A. walnut M14E2 stocks originally purchased from Fred's years ago that showed evidence of being dipped in what appeared to be black enamel. The metalwork was fully coated as were the upper and lower screw holes for the recoil pad indicating that the complete E2 stock, sans recoil pad, was dipped. Additionally, the butt area on one S.A. stock was sealed with some sort of black epoxy-like compound. It appeared that an armorer was trying to keep moisture out of the end grain to help prevent swelling. I can understand that but the dipping is a mystery. Perhaps one of the former GIs who carried the U.S. M14E2/M14A1 knows something about this. Night ops?

Butt area was completely sealed with a black epoxy-like compound so thick you could not see any markings or the meat tenderizer like pattern that was underneath :


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Last edited by leid; October 15th, 2014 at 02:55 PM.
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Old October 15th, 2014, 02:09 PM   #142
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Guys, Thank you, Thank you and again Thank you for the photos, the history and most importantly your knowledge! (i wish i knew 1/2 of what yall have forgotten). Please get
together and write a book, magazine, pamphlet or whatever you please, just so that it all
doesn't go away someday.
Again thanks for sharing everything!
Charlie

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Old October 15th, 2014, 04:53 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliefrye View Post
Guys, Thank you, Thank you and again Thank you for the photos, the history and most importantly your knowledge! (i wish i knew 1/2 of what yall have forgotten). Please get
together and write a book, magazine, pamphlet or whatever you please, just so that it all
doesn't go away someday.
Again thanks for sharing everything!
Charlie
Charlie,

Thank you sir for the kind comments, I'm glad you found the thread useful. That was its sole purpose to help others identify and more closely understand the M14E2 rifle.

It is my favorite M14 variation.

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Old June 28th, 2015, 05:27 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnw50cal View Post
Ren it's not MP1 it's MPI and some real type 3 E2 stabilizers had that mark and some didn't. I'm pointing out differences on known USGI stabilizers. Bill in the thread you took my pictures from said that the guy in Michigan had not marked them like that before, maybe he started that is why I keep talking about it--keep up.

I'll point out that a member here who has written a excellent book with many updates said over and over in those books that a S inside a L stamped on the heel of a stock meant it was manufactured somebody other than Sachs and Sons, a fact he just learned after the release of all these new in box E2 stocks.


Just cause Bill says it's so don't make it so.
The same could be said for Different or any other Historian, no one person knows it all. Mistakes can be made, sometimes new info surfaces that contradicts old ideas. Let us be open minded.

Ren

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Old October 7th, 2015, 07:24 AM   #145
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BTT for buckshotu2 mostly, and a little for me as I like to look at Ren porn.................I'll be in the bathroom if anybody need's me.

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Old October 7th, 2015, 11:05 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnw50cal View Post
BTT for buckshotu2 mostly, and a little for me as I like to look at Ren porn.................I'll be in the bathroom if anybody need's me.
Greg,

As it turns out the stabilizer in question was a genuine USGI E2 Stabilizer.

Ren

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Old October 7th, 2015, 02:59 PM   #147
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Ren,

Thanks for putting this together. A neat build and a historical document, as well.

Semper Fi,

Wes

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Old October 7th, 2015, 05:44 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renisin View Post
Greg,

As it turns out the stabilizer in question was a genuine USGI E2 Stabilizer.

Ren
Which one was this, buckshotu2 sent me a link to a fake, and the one you just got here on the forum was real.

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Old October 7th, 2015, 11:39 PM   #149
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Original Use for SA Walnut E2 Stock ...

So, would the walnut cartouched M14E2 stock only have been placed on an M14 at the Springfield armory when produced? Or, would it be "normal" to find in use in the military with a TRW, Winchester or H&R sitting in an SA, M14E2 walnut stock?

Thanks!

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Old October 8th, 2015, 12:21 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by tnw50cal View Post
Which one was this, buckshotu2 sent me a link to a fake, and the one you just got here on the forum was real.
This!

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