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National Match sights questions

This is a discussion on National Match sights questions within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I just bought a used M21 (with the wood adjustable comb stock). Originally shipped in Sept '99 (have the tag with headspace etc). The elevation ...


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Old July 13th, 2013, 08:08 AM   #1
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National Match sights questions

I just bought a used M21 (with the wood adjustable comb stock). Originally shipped in Sept '99 (have the tag with headspace etc).
The elevation markings are hard to read - I've seen some that were white for easier reading. How is the best way to make them white?
What does the "G" mean on the elevation knob (17 clicks from bottom)? What does "DRC" mean on the windage knob?
Here's the details on my rear sight"
The peep sight post is marked NM. The aperture is marked "520" on one side and unmarked on the other side.
here's the markings on the elevation knob:
1- 4 clicks from bottom
- +4 clicks (from "1") - no number just a line Is this 100-meters?
G - +5 clicks What does G mean?
- + 5 clicks - no number just a line
3- + 5 clicks Is this 300 meters? It appears that it's too many clicks?
M + 4 clicks - no line. I think this means "meters"
- +4 clicks - no number just a line what does the line represent?
G - + 4 clicks I'm not positive it's a "G" as it's very hard to read maybe a "6" Is this 600 meters?
10 - + 4 clicks I assume 1000 meters?
^ - +4 clicks Looks like an up arrow? What does this mean?
11 - +4 clicks I assume 1100 meters?
- +5 clicks no number just a line what does the line represent?
2 - +3 clicks I assume 1200 meters?
- + 3 clicks no number just a line What does the line represent?
1 - +4 clicks - starting over
- + 4 clicks no number, just a line what does the line represent?
+5 clicks = max adjustment.

I've searched the forum, but didn't see this addressed before.
I'm hoping to go to the range tomorrow and test her out!

Thanks for the help

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Old July 13th, 2013, 09:01 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 56huck View Post
I just bought a used M21 (with the wood adjustable comb stock). Originally shipped in Sept '99 (have the tag with headspace etc).
The elevation markings are hard to read - I've seen some that were white for easier reading. How is the best way to make them white?
What does the "G" mean on the elevation knob (17 clicks from bottom)? What does "DRC" mean on the windage knob?
Here's the details on my rear sight"
The peep sight post is marked NM. The aperture is marked "520" on one side and unmarked on the other side.
here's the markings on the elevation knob:
1- 4 clicks from bottom
- +4 clicks (from "1") - no number just a line Is this 100-meters?
G - +5 clicks What does G mean?
- + 5 clicks - no number just a line
3- + 5 clicks Is this 300 meters? It appears that it's too many clicks?
M + 4 clicks - no line. I think this means "meters"
- +4 clicks - no number just a line what does the line represent?
G - + 4 clicks I'm not positive it's a "G" as it's very hard to read maybe a "6" Is this 600 meters?
10 - + 4 clicks I assume 1000 meters?
^ - +4 clicks Looks like an up arrow? What does this mean?
11 - +4 clicks I assume 1100 meters?
- +5 clicks no number just a line what does the line represent?
2 - +3 clicks I assume 1200 meters?
- + 3 clicks no number just a line What does the line represent?
1 - +4 clicks - starting over
- + 4 clicks no number, just a line what does the line represent?
+5 clicks = max adjustment.

I've searched the forum, but didn't see this addressed before.
I'm hoping to go to the range tomorrow and test her out!

Thanks for the help
For starters Your elevation if for a M1 Garand as it is graduated in YDS not Meters and what looks like a G is the contractor that made it, I don't remember who that contractor was. DRC is Drudge Bros and there very common. The best way too white the marking is with a white China marker aka white grease pencil.

Questions for you???? is your rear sight base marked NM or NM/A2? Is the peep hooded or not?

If your rear sight base is marked NM it is for a NM M1 Garand, if the base it marked NM/A2 its for a NM M14 and the windage knob would be marked DRC NM and its threads would be the fine pitch.

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Old July 13th, 2013, 09:59 AM   #3
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On the Elevation Pinion:

1. Is there an "M" engraved somewhere around the drum? If there is, then the graduations for each number is in hundreds of meters, I.E. 1=100 meters, 2=200 meters, etc. This style was for the M14.

2. If there is NO "M" engraved somewhere around the drum, then the graduations for each number is in hundreds of yards. This style is for the M1 Garand. However, you can use either pinion for either rifle as the pinion itself otherwise remains unchanged.

3. The graduations ARE NOT PRECISE!!! They are only a ROUGH estimate AND they are ONLY for the 147-150 gr standard service bullet and powder charge in GI ammo. Change the powder or bullet and the graduations are virtually useless.

4. The BEST way to find and keep record of where to set the Aperture for each distance is to START with the aperture all the way down. Then you count up the number of "clicks" it takes turning the elevation pinion so it moves the aperture upwards to shoot at the yard line to center the sights FOR YOU the way you sight the rifle and the way the rifle groups. For example, many M1's and M14's need about 8 to 12 clicks for 100 yards THOUGH it MAY be more or less than that depending on the way you sight the rifle and how your rifle shoots. Some rifles only need 3 or 4 clicks at 100 yards and some rifles need up to 18 clicks at 100 yards. (In the latter case, it is best to file down the Front Sight so you have less clicks of elevation at longer distances.) Once you have found how many clicks it takes to center the group up and down, YOU WRITE DOWN the number of clicks in your data book for that range, let's say it is 11 clicks.

Then when you go to say 200 yards, you ADD about 3 or 4 clicks of elevation on top of the number needed for the 100 yard line. Once you adjust the elevation up or down to get it centered, you write down the TOTAL number of clicks. Let's say you found it took 4 clicks up from the 100 yard setting to center the group for elevation. That makes your total elevation at 200 yards to be 15 clicks. However, you ALSO want to make sure you record how many clicks it took to "come up" from the 100 yard setting to the 200 yard setting. In NM shooting, we call using this method as the person's "Come Up's" when going further back in range to the 300, 600 and 1,000 yard range. For example, a rough "Come Up" when going from the 600 yard line to the 1,000 yard line is to "come up" or add an additional 22 clicks FROM the sight setting for the 600 yard line.

Maybe Bamban or some of the experienced NM shooters will chime in and give us their normal "Come Ups" and you can use those as a rough estimate as you sight the rifle in for YOUR eyes and sighting style and the ammo you are using. HOWEVER, REMEMBER THAT IF YOU CHANGE THE AMMO, BULLET, POWDER OR SHOOTING POSITION; the "Come Ups" are probably going to change a bit.

What MOST NM shooters do is use different color nail polish to mark the elevation drum and the receiver for each yard line they shoot.

Now for BATTLE SIGHT ZERO, the number of clicks of elevation and windage is taken from the 300 yard PRONE position. On a regular Infantry Rifle, you put that on your rifle and then aim lower at shorter distances and higher at longer distances on the target.

BTW, when you are NOT shooting the rifle, it is BEST to run the aperture all the way down to protect the top of the aperture and especially a NM Hooded Aperture. Should you drop or bang a rifle on a hooded aperture when it is up, it may bust off. We used to FINE our shooters a Quarter if they left the Hooded Aperture UP when they gave the rifle to we Armorers on the Rifle Van, because of that. The reason was when we turned the rifle upside down on the bench to pop open the triggr guard and the hooded aperture was up, the hooded aperture hit the bench FIRST and could easily snap off loose.

Here is a thread on using the NM Hooded Aperture.

Using the NM Hooded Rear Sight Aperture.

Thanks from Bamban and budster
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Old July 13th, 2013, 11:02 AM   #4
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I never pay attention to the markings, get your 200 yard zero count down the clicks and write them down as Top mentioned. Next time you go out just click up.

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Old July 13th, 2013, 01:26 PM   #5
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You may also like this thread:

Sighting In or adjusting Elevation and Windage on an M1 or M14

Thanks from budster
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Old July 13th, 2013, 02:05 PM   #6
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Have found that use of a white/red paint pen(most contractors supply houses carry them for writing on steel plates, etc.) to highlight the various numbers, hash marks, etc. works fine and is durable. Simply fill in with the paint, let dry some 15 or so minutes, lightly wipe with cloth wet with Hoppes or similar solvent and bingo, the letters, numbers are filled and stand out. Any smearing will be wiped away leaving a clean distinctive fill in the areas desired. Have noticed that military users seem to use white and civilians seemed to prefer red or orange??? Your choice.

Thanks from Gus Fisher
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Old July 13th, 2013, 02:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Instructor View Post
Have found that use of a white/red paint pen(most contractors supply houses carry them for writing on steel plates, etc.) to highlight the various numbers, hash marks, etc. works fine and is durable. Simply fill in with the paint, let dry some 15 or so minutes, lightly wipe with cloth wet with Hoppes or similar solvent and bingo, the letters, numbers are filled and stand out. Any smearing will be wiped away leaving a clean distinctive fill in the areas desired. Have noticed that military users seem to use white and civilians seemed to prefer red or orange??? Your choice.
GREAT info. May I copy/paste this to the following thread, with credit to you of course?

Sighting In or adjusting Elevation and Windage on an M1 or M14

Thanks from budster
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Old July 13th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #8
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Great stuff! Thank you
To answer some of the q's:
This is on an M21 (not a Garand - although I understand the sights are interchangeable) which is a target version of the M1A.
The peep sight post says NM - no NM/A2 that I can find anywhere
The elevation knob has an "M" on it - so it's in meters.
The rear sight is hooded and rotates 180 degrees with a slot on the end marked "520"
The front sight has (NM .062) marked on the right side

I understand the ballistics of each bullet used will change the settings on the sights. I've found with my Garands the elevation markings are very good with milsup ammo. I will be using higher quality and eventually handloaded loaded with this rifle to try am get the best match of ammo for the rifle - which will change the sight settings.

I just want to learn my new rifle and understand what all the marking on the dials mean.

The links provided above were also very helpful - thank you!
I'm going run off and paint the markings as noted above, so maybe I can see them at the range tomorrow.

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Old July 13th, 2013, 07:30 PM   #9
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Sorry, I misread the rear sight aperture is marked NM under the sight cover.

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Old July 14th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #10
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MGySgt USMC Ret. Gus Fisher,

Not a problem at all but no credit required, just glad to contribute.

Thanks from Gus Fisher
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Old July 14th, 2013, 11:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Instructor View Post
MGySgt USMC Ret. Gus Fisher,

Not a problem at all but no credit required, just glad to contribute.
Thank you.

I used the Quote section and have added it to my thread so you do get credit for the information.

Thanks from budster
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