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My adventue shipping a rifle by UPS

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Old March 6th, 2013, 04:25 PM   #1
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My adventue shipping a rifle by UPS

The displeasure of shipping a rifle via UPS to a licensed repair station/FFL holder the 4th time in a year came to a head today. I was so pissed off I left before the law enforcement agency I work for was called and I lost my job. I spent 1 hour on the phone with 3 supervisors at the 800 number and ended with the Hub Manager calling me twice to straighten things out.Here's a few tips;
1-Make your own account BEFORE you ship. That way YOU are the shipper,not UPS. BS but prevents them asking you to provide the FFL number that you are shipping to. The FFL holder would not provide this (that I understand) and how would they verify it anyway?
2-Don't seal the rifle before you get there if you are insuring for over X amount of dollars. I'm not sure what X= yet but I put down $1,500 and they proceeded to cut open the box to take pictures of the contents. Their explanation was I could say I shipped a $2,000 picture frame but sent a $10 frame instead. I don't agree but accept the idea.
I try to follow rules. I told them they need to provide a SIMPLE explanation on their Web Page that us commoners could follow and we would all be much happier.

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Last edited by 41magmafia; March 7th, 2013 at 07:25 AM.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 04:27 PM   #2
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I didn't have a problem they just put sporting goods in the computer. It comes down to the clerk i think.

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Old March 6th, 2013, 04:37 PM   #3
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I tried to ship most of a rifle, minus barrel, last week from one of the offices, the answer was a very scared "we can't do that, go to the hub". I went to the hub 2 miles away, told them I wanted to ship a rifle and they said ok with a smile. Insured it for $3k and they didn't even blink. 10 minutes later it was on its way. Hub= great, branch store = no bueno.

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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #4
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They ask if it is hazadous or banned.

I say, "Nope, Machine parts".

Goes out every time & never a problem.

They truly are machine parts.

Didn't we just have a big thread about this last week?

Ole Silver

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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #5
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This was the MAIN hub for Seminole County Florida. I drove 25 minutes to get treated like crap. M-14/M1A in a CMP box as "machine parts" and you insured for how much? Your shipment gets "lost" and your SOL. You can start your thread telling us how you did versus the UPS Claims Dept and their Lawyers with your $2000+ claim for your machine parts.


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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:47 PM   #6
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I thaught the hub was supposed to accept them. It must have been the cashier or floor manager or something.

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Old March 6th, 2013, 06:03 PM   #7
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The only time I sent one back for warranty work, I took it to the hub and the first clerk said they couldn't ship guns. I argued a bit (I was doing exactly what the factory told me) and a manager came out and said I was right. No problems from then on.

I have one now that needs to go back for repairs. The factory sent me a 'call tag' UPS label that says Warranty on it. Only where I live now it is an hour and a half into Dallas to get to the hub - not my idea of fun. Luckily, my local dealer said he'll hand it off to the UPS man when he comes by for his daily deliveries. It helps to be a regular customer in a small town shop.

BTW, I was reading a detailed thread on another site just yesterday on this subject. The guys that seemed to know what they were talking about said it was a violation to tell them it was machine parts when it is a gun. Also it was mentioned that this would likely void any insurance, etc if it got lost or damaged.

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Old March 6th, 2013, 06:18 PM   #8
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I've already had an handgun stolen from the Hialeah Florida hub in 1995. The claim process was a pain in the ass and it was coming back from an FFL/Gunsmith to me. I'm not willing to take my chances, but that's me.

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Old March 7th, 2013, 10:09 AM   #9
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I've shipped by UPS for years although I now use Fed Ex. Some time back I took a rifle to the local UPS dock for shipping and the manager gave me some flack about shipping a firearm even though I have an FFL. It turns out the manager was just transfered in from Alaska where there are issues since firearms cannot go ground through Canada to or from the lower 48. I asked him to please get me a copy of the FA shipping rules so I would do everything properly. He emailed me a copy and sent his appology since the rules plainly state that long guns can go ground without a problem. His experience in Alaska wasn't applicable to the CONUS.
All that is required is that a FFL has to be on one end or the other. They usually don't ask for a FFL if it's being shipped by a non-licensee as long as you state it is being shipped to an FFL. Outside contractors however, will often not want to ship firearms at all or may want to see a copy of the FFL. They are not necessarily bound by UPS rules so be aware when using the UPS Store or similar offices.

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Old March 7th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #10
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I use the UPS hub in Brooksville Fl. They will not accept a Long gun without a license copy of the FFL who will recieve it. With the current increases in UPS fees, I may start having my FFL ship via Priority Mail.

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Old March 15th, 2013, 04:27 PM   #11
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Second trip to UPS Longwood Florida results the same. NOT able to ship. This was due to the fact that I didn't print my label at home. Here is the correspondence to and from ATF;


********
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:25 AM
To: FIPB Regulatory Email inquiries
Subject: UPS Issues shipping to a License Holder

I need your help. I have read the requirements of;

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30] I have also read the UPS guidelines listed on their Web Page and find nothing that sheds any light on this isssue.

I was trying to ship a rifle to an FFL holder in another state. The receiving FFL holder cannot by law give me a copy of his FFL or the entire number. UPS states that I cannot ship from a UPS Hub/Shipping center without this. Their position was;

1- I cannot ship from the Center without a copy of the FFL since that somehow makes them liable as "the Shipper."

2- I can ship if I create an account and print the label from home without an FFL and either have it picked up or then drop it off at the same facility.

I can't understand how if my name is on the box and label that I am not the shipper.Do you have any direction on this issue you could provide?

*******
Thank you for your recent inquiry to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). This is in response to your email in which you inquired about UPS regulations as they pertain to shipping firearms.
Although Federal law and regulations may allow a person to ship a firearm to an FFL in a different State, ATF does not have jurisdiction over United States Postal Service (USPS) and/or common or contract carriers. They may have their own internal policies on the shipment of firearms. You must also adhere to the USPS and/or common or contract carriers policies and procedures when shipping firearms as well.
In addition, there may be State laws that pertain to this proposed activity. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General (www.naag.org) for information on any such requirements.

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. Should you have additional questions, please contact your local ATF office. A listing of ATF office phone numbers can be found at: http://www.atf.gov/field.

Regards,

Firearms Industry Programs Branch, ATF

The gun was refused the second time as I went to the hub to ship but the label can't be printed there?????
I was finally able after an hour on the phone with UPS able to complete my account WITH a number this time. I then requested a pickup and had my regular driver pickup the gun and ship WITHOUT opening package and WITHOUT proof of FFL.
I am not done with these bozos yet.


Last edited by 41magmafia; March 15th, 2013 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Typos as usual
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Old March 15th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #12
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On occasion I have problems with all the shippers (UPS, FedEx & USPS).

I typically bring a printout of their respective shipping policies for ammo or firearms and that has always ended any discussion in my favor that initiated with a no we can't shipped that.

I find it amusing that I know their regs better than those that man the counter. Damn knuckle draggers...

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Old March 15th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #13
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Trying to ship a handgun via UPS, the main hub took it, but UPS stores (are franchised) will not accept any firearms. Some 3rd party shipping places (like a locally owned copy shop) may since they are just a private shipper reselling their service. I did get a ups store to take a rifle once, but she spelled rifle 'riffle' so I don't think she was the sharpest tack in the drawer.

+1 for Fed-Ex. I recently shipped ammo, which is another one of those problem children. You can pay for the postage on line, print a label, tape it on with the ORM-D sticker, and just drop it at the closest collection point. They usually don't give you grief since it's already paid for.

If you don't declare it as a rifle/firearm you can get in trouble with the feds, and forget any insurance, FWIW.

Justin

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Old March 16th, 2013, 05:51 AM   #14
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In the past I have shipped a long gun from my local gun shop. I asked the owner if I printed everthing at home on my account could he give it to UPS. He said ya no problem and it shipped to buyer FFL no problem. Just an idea maybe it will help. Good luck.

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Old March 17th, 2013, 07:56 AM   #15
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Thanks to all. My mission is to get UPS to make this available on their web page. 1 hour round trips x2 and an hour on the phone to determine THEIR policy is bad business. They need to be consistent since it is THEIR policy and not ATF, that is FUBAR.

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