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Polytech M14S Rifles Suck

This is a discussion on Polytech M14S Rifles Suck within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Lazerus2000 I had a couple of Harleys and an Indian. Also had 4 BMWs . Now I ride a Vstrom 1000. Aint ...


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Old April 15th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #121
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I had a couple of Harleys and an Indian. Also had 4 BMWs . Now I ride a Vstrom 1000. Aint gonna see no Harleys on some of the trails I ride the bigVEE. And it costs less than a Bring More Wallet GS 1200. like has been said already ...dont matter what you ride ... dont matter where your M14 was born. But what DOES matter to me is VALUE.
Very valid points. But ur also not going to pack your wife on the back of you bigVEE as you put it and ride 1,000 miles. Woman come w stuff!
I've rode a hard tail, jockey shift bike from san diego to Daytona with just a tooth brush, change of socks and my wallet. When I got married I bought a couch. Cause woman come with stuff.

Each M14 I not best suited for all roles either. Battle rifle is not a match rifle. Does that mean the bad guy won't die from either weapon just as quick no.

To each their own and we vote with our wallets. God bless America!

2 up is better than none up!

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Old April 15th, 2012, 11:45 PM   #122
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when all is said and done, ake2far's post waaaay back on Page 1 i(post 7) s a pretty concise commentary on the opinions expressed by the OP.

Lazerus2000's commens are also well taken as are those of 7th.

Once again, the OP expressed his opinions based on his SINGULAR experience with ONE rifle.

IF the intent of the OP was to

"... warn people of the problems Polytechs have. "

he didn't do a credible job, in MY opinion. (as we say, we all have one...)

A large number of members here have had success with their Polys in original configuration. Sure, we like to swap out parts, but the bottom line is (to the Newbie...) the Polytech is a fine rifle, with forged op rod, receiver and very nice chrome lined barrel.

My message to the newbies who have a Poly is to fire milsurp NATO spec ammo and be done with it. You don't need to rush out and buy barrels or bolts. IF you choose to do that in the future, then fine.

Can anybody point to a credible malfunction of a factory Polytech or Norinco that has resulted in a catastrophic failure?? NOT YET, as far as I can tell. The same cannot besaid about other commercial rifles, including Fulton, SAI, and maybe others.

I'm not a fanboi of anything, but I do recognize the quality of the Polytech from the dimensional specs.

I'm not "in the business" so have no dog in any fight as far as making money by "improving" chicom rifles. I'm just expressing my conclusions based on MY experiences, and they are as valid as those of the OP.

JWB

BTW, any Newbie with a Poly should not feel Unwelcome in this forum. SOme folks try to pull the "patriotic" thing and put owners of chicoms in the category of "less patriotic", which is, (again, my Opinion) complete BS.


Last edited by jbrooks; April 16th, 2012 at 06:43 AM.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 04:21 AM   #123
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I had a Ford once,
cam went bad,
I'll never buy one of those again,
Piece of $#!+

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Old April 16th, 2012, 06:45 AM   #124
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I had a Ford once,
cam went bad,
I'll never buy one of those again,
Piece of $#!+
Reminds me of my '67 Mustang... Looking back I wish I had kept that POS! It would be worth a fortune now...

JWB

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Old April 16th, 2012, 07:35 AM   #125
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Careful, you might just be speaking over your head. The Gov has a good handle on where we get our parts and the quality of those parts. Our defense system is the highest priority they have, it's what keeps them in power here and all over the world. Others have made statements about the quality of our modern military and they ended up hiding out in the mountains of Pakistan and shaking in their boots.

In your zeal to be patriotic don't forget that most of the things we all buy these days come from China, including most after market M14 parts. Buying a Poly doesn't make you a sell-out, it makes you normal. Next time you go into a Walmart or any other big box store smell the air, it smells like China.

We should all be free to say what we want, that's what Strategic Defense is all about.
Okay now my ire is up. You do not know who I am or what I do. However, I do know what I am talking about. I am a US Army Acquisition Officer. I read about counterfeit electronics everyday, both in the defense news and congressional testimony. I don't shop at China Mart, but if I did it is much different buy a plastic brush than a weapon/parts from godless communists. I am neither a sellout or a government tool....I just choose not to buy communist chinese weapons....and as an immigrant to the USof A I can see some of the reasons why our economy is so weak. There is no patriotism anymore. It is all about how cheap and what the preceived instantaneous value is. I suggest all of you who think Chinese firearms/parts are the best start your own business MANUFACTURING american parts. I am sure that those on this form that make money out of working on chinese junk do it because they can make easy money and provide a service no one else does. When I retire, which could be any day know I plan on making some of those parts to sell....I do get a kick out of reading that people think it is okay to support a communist country/military industrial complex that would destroy us if it could, do not allow their people political or other freedom, because they saved a few hundred dollars....now that is being a tool and a sellout!

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Old April 16th, 2012, 07:53 AM   #126
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OI do get a kick out of reading that people think it is okay to support a communist country/military industrial complex that would destroy us if it could, do not allow their people political or other freedom, because they saved a few hundred dollars....now that is being a tool and a sellout!
I am genuinely curious. What brand computer did you write that post on?

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Old April 16th, 2012, 08:14 AM   #127
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Okay now my ire is up. You do not know who I am or what I do. ...
OK, I'll bite, Your sig line says

"LTC, US Army - 22 yrs and counting..."

As an Acquisition Officer, you're familiar with the FAR ... what does it say about government computers? Does it specifically exclude Chinese chips and other parets? Does it exclude just any "godless" origin, or is it specific to a particular "god"...?

What procedures do you have in place to ensure the US Government does not buy anything conmtaining godless chinese parts?

I'm curious which paragraphs of the FAR outline this. What US companies provide ALL the components for US Gov't computers?

Enjoy your retirement, BTW, and good luck on your endeavors in civilian life. :)

JWB

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Old April 16th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #128
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I can't even begin to imagine the time it would take to make sure every purchase I made was 100% American made. From the molds and dyes used in the packaging to the end product itself. Then I have to make sure I'm not paying twice as much for half as much.
It sure looks like this argument comes down to buy global vs buy American. Unfortunately, buy American is marketing hype, and as someone else already mentioned, all the Polytechs that you could legally buy now, you would be buying from Americans.
Oh yeah, our government borrows from China, so our dollars already go there.

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Old April 16th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #129
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ALL NEW M14 Clones can possibly suck ... so what??

I have never wanted to gloss over the well known issues with the Chinese made M14 clones. In my experience, with hundreds of the Chinese M14s, most of the Chinese M14 clones are acceptable shooters right out of the box. HOWEVER, some Chinese M14 clones will definitely benefit from a bit of do it yourself tweaking, and probably from some GI parts swaps ... just like some of the USA built M14 clones..

But let us be fair and balanced here ...
the problems with quality control are NOT LIMITED just to the Chinese M14 clones. I've posted a link to my M14 Inspection, Maintenance, Repair and Modification Seminar Notes, in which I discuss the various well known issues affecting BOTH the Chinese and the USA built M14 clones.
http://www.m14.ca/seminar/M14_Seminar_EBR.pdf

Here is a summary:


Norinco VS Springfield;
Norinco M14 rifles are made primarily of FORGED parts, with excellent dimensional tolerances, but with some possible variations in heat treatment and assembly.

If you view the Norinco [ M-305 or M-14 or M-14S ] as nothing more than a stripped FORGED receiver, with very close to US GI dimensional specifications, you can never go wrong. Think of all those extra parts that come attached to the receiver as [ mostly usable ] free bonuses. If you like a hands on do it yourself project, get a Chinese M-14. Simply do a bit of tuning, add the requisite US GI parts, and you have one of the best M14 type rifles available, and at only 1/3 or so of the cost of an equivalent Springfield M1A.
BUT,
for those who don't want to get their hands dirty working on their own rifles, or who don’t want to pay for a gunsmith to do it for them, the American made [?well some of the parts are made in the usa anyhow?] Springfield M1A can be a very good choice. Springfield offers a lifetime warranty on the M1A. Unfortunately, this lifetime warranty may be required [ several times ] even on a brand new Springfield. In my experience [ and in many other M1A owner’s experience ] there may not be all that much difference in quality control between the new US and the new Chinese made M14 clones.

There have been considerable complaints that many of the M1A CAST receivers are not correct dimensionally. Aside from the CAST receiver, new Springfield M1A rifles no longer use as many surplus US GI internal parts, and in their place, SA has turned to more cast parts, of varying quality, from various suppliers. At an M14 seminar I taught recently in the US, most of the rifles that showed up were M1As. And most of them showed one or more of the common M1A issues. Even the brand new M1A that had just come back from SA service, fitted with a well worn GI bolt as replacement for the original notorious cast bolt, showed that the bolt was simply dropped in, with no attempt made to get proper lug bearing.

So almost every aftermarket M14 clone,
whatever the source,
might need some tweaking before it is perfect.


Known Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A rifles deficiencies:

1) The receiver scope mounting hole and mount surfaces may be out of specification, which makes fitting non-adjustable scope mounts difficult.

2.) The receiver bridge primary (bolt closing) firing pin retracting surface can be mislocated. The camming surface of the tang on the firing pin should be inspected carefully for damage. If the firing pin tang is damaged, the firing pin should be replaced with a non-chromed firing pin. With firing pins that are not chromium plated, most of the damage will be on the firing pin instead of the receiver bridge. The harder surface of the chromium plated firing pin will cut a groove into the receiver bridge deeper and sooner. Note that light polish wear is normal on the retracting surface but a groove cut into the receiver by the firing pin is not.

3) The bolt may be cast, and have cast parts. These cast bolts are not top quality, and especially have a bad habit of losing the extractor

4) The left locking lug engagement surface in the receiver may be slightly misaligned. Lapping the bolt to the receiver can usually resolve this, and is recommended to evenly distributes stress on the receiver.

5) The bottom of the bolt roller makes contact with the receiver when the bolt is in battery, preventing the bolt from closing completely. The fix is to grind a half round relief cut into the receiver, to accept the bolt roller when fully locked in the down position. This will save replacing the bolt or bolt roller, which otherwise could be destroyed rather quickly.

6) The receiver groove that takes the tab of the op rod may be undersize, rough, vary in size, and not cut straight. This can cause rough functioning, unreliability, quick wear on that tiny op rod tab, and op rods eventually jumping out of the track. This also can cause extra work when properly fitting a replacement GI or Chinese op rod with an unworn, full size tab.

7.) The receiver rear sight elevation knob indexing detents wear prematurely due to too soft surface hardness. The fix is to install an elevation repair disk.

8.) The holes for the bolt lock pin are too small. The bolt lock roll pins could be forced in which may cause one of the bolt lock window tabs to break. The simple solution is to use a slightly smaller diameter pin.

9.) Some of the earlier Stainless Steel barreled “loaded” rifles, had the chambers cut TOO FAST = very rough = reamer chatter = poor extraction and reliability.

10.) The rear sight pocket is slightly too short. This results in a slight over hang of the rear sight base at the rear.. This springs the rear sight cover more than it should.

Known Chinese Norinco / Polytech M-14 deficiencies
First thing to understand about the Chinese M-14 clones, whatever manufacturer, and whenever they were made, is that Chinese quality control varies considerably amongst individual rifles. While the Chinese FORGED receivers are usually closer to US GI dimensional specifications than most commercial receivers, with the Chinese M-14 clones, heat treatment and quality control during assembly of the fitted parts may vary
considerably. In my personal sampling [ hundreds ] careful inspections have found MOST [ about 2/3 ] of the Chinese M-14 rifles to be good to excellent overall, or else they could be made into great rifles with a bit of effort, and some US GI parts.

I have also found a few receivers that were a bit softer than desirable, but these would still make safe and reliable shooters … they just might wear out a bit earlier. I also found one Chinese M-14 receiver that was heat treated too hard [ as in BRITTLE ]. This one was unfired, sold as a stripped receiver only, and it shattered while being fitted with a barrel. This was fortunate, as a receiver that is too hard is much more unsafe than one that is too soft, and without proper test equipment, is very difficult to detect.

This is why it is so important that the end user has as much knowledge as possible when buying any M-14 type rifle. A careful inspection can determine if you are getting a silk purse, perfect as is, or a sow’s ear, that will require lots of money and labor to get right.

1) Even brand new, the original Chinese bolt may be poorly fitted at the left locking lug, the bolt may be too soft, headspace may be grossly long for SAAMI .308 Winchester specifications even though the firearm is marked as .308 Winchester. Headspace will almost definitely be too long for reloads using .308 Win brass, and bolt timing may be incorrect. … or all of the above.
If you want to reload for the M-14 rifles, or if you want target accuracy, or if you want that extra safety margin that tighter headspace can give you, then just replace the Chinese bolt with a US GI M-14 bolt. In most cases, this takes only a bit of lapping in before tight .308 Win headspace is achieved. Consider that with a few minutes work lapping the bolt to the receiver, and a few other bits, you can end up with a Chinese / US GI crossbreed that is totally reliable, and as good a shooter as a Springfield M1A that costs several times as much, and also that a brand new expensive M1A might still need a new GI bolt to replace a cast bolt.

2.) The barrel may be incorrectly indexed to the receiver. If the front sight leans to the left, and the rear sight is adjusted to the right to compensate, then the barrel has been over-tightened. To correct this, the barrel must be removed, and the barrel shoulder must be rolled back to replace the metal distorted by this over-tightening. Since proper alignment, torque, and fit of the barrel shoulder to the receiver is critical to accuracy, this is not a trivial fix. If the front sight leans to the right, and the rear sight is adjusted to the left to compensate, then the barrel is under-tightened. This is not as serious as over-tightening, as in most cases all that is required is to remove the little lock screw under the op rod at the receiver/barrel, and using the proper tools and torque specifications, tighten / rotate the barrel to the proper location.
This is what is known as “INDEXING” the barrel.

3) The Chinese op rod spring is undersize in diameter, and usually will not last as long as a US GI spring. Replacement with a US GI spring, even a well used GI spring, is the very first upgrade any Chinese M-14 owner should consider. NOTE: the Chinese op rod springs are smaller in inside diameter than the US GI springs. If fitting a US GI spring sized round style op rod spring guide, the Chinese springs may bind and cause reliability issues.

4) The hammer, trigger and sear may be soft, and also may require a lot of fitting to get a safe trigger, with no creep, and a decent pull weight. The trigger pin and the hammer pin, as well as being soft, may also be undersize. An undersize pin that wears out of round quickly, does not contribute to a good trigger pull.

5.) The Chinese wood stock is made of mystery wood… some are as soft as balsa. This wood will compress under tension, or may swell when wet, and the result may be a trigger mechanism that is unsafe = the hammer will follow the bolt down if the trigger is held back during cycling, or also have an effect on fit when latching in magazines.

6.) The Chinese rear sight mechanism may be soft, and wear quickly to the point where adjustments are not possible, or won’t stay set. Again, replacement with US GI parts will fix of the above.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

BB has had bad luck with ONE Chinese M14, and therefor condemns the entire Chinese M14 family.

Hell, at my last M14 seminar, In the US, the majority of M14 type rifles that showed up were SA M1A types. And not one of these M1A type rifles, even the brand new LOADED, was pefect out of the box [ rough chamber/GI bolt just dropped in with no lapping when owner sent it back for CAST bolt replacement, forgot to grind out the bolt lug relief slot etc, Etc, ETC., ].

Even so, I don't condemn ALL M1A rifles ...
except to say that they are way over priced for what you get.

On the plus side, when you go to sell that "made in the USA" [ NOT really ] Sproingfield M1A, you will probably get most of your money back. Just like with the other "made in the USA" icon, a Hardley, [ NOT really made in USA either ] they will hold their resale value and possibly even appreciate. There seems to be a LOT of naive and RICH buyers out there who spend their money based on advertising and perceived patriotism rather than on value.

OK FINE...
that leave the prices lower for the value oriented shoppers who would rather have a Chinese M14 and a Japanese motorcycle ... both of which can out perform the "made in the USA " [ NOT really ] competition, at a much lower price


SO,
youse pays yur money,
and youse takes your chances ...
but personally, I'd rather start my M14 clone build with a FORGED Chinese receiver,
that takes GI parts with a minimum of fitting,
than with a CAST, and possibly out of spec for dimension SA receiver,
that takes a couple of hours extra to fit the GI parts to.

Or better yet,
just buy another Remington R25 AR 10 clone, which ouit of the box,
will probably out perform any M14 I've ever built.

Your Personal Mileage May Vary,
but I've BTDT with literally hundreds of Chinese/GI M14 Hybrids,
and that is what my experience tells me.

So assess the credibility of these two opposing opinions for yourself.

PS: NO, I am NOT of Chinese extraction myself ...
but I do appreciate good value for low price,
so I shop on VALUE, not on country of origin.
TTFN
LAZ 1
[;)


Last edited by Lazerus2000; April 16th, 2012 at 10:41 AM. Reason: update
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Old April 16th, 2012, 10:35 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Depth Afield View Post
I am genuinely curious. What brand computer did you write that post on?
+1

Okay, so yeah.

I work at a very large computer electronics company that has several campuses in the PNW. I'm not supposed to say who because it's technically against corporate policy, but I'm sure if one were intregued enough, they could figure it out with minimal research.

I will tell you with 100% certainty that you will not find one piece of computer electronics equipment that is either made by a company that does not have some kind of business going on in China, or uses components made by a company that has buisness in China. Our chipsets are on well over 60% of the industry's motherboards, and our processors are in 80% of the world's computer systems, and we have a significant presence in China. This means, we alone have spent pallets of cash building a presence in that country, and I will guarantee you we didn't use American materials or labor to bulid the campuses in the country. We haven't done that with any other campus that we've built world wide.

I'd concern myself with changing the buying trend for computers before you start worrying about the finite quantity of Polytech rifles in the US. That is from a purely patriotic standpoint anyhow.

I guess where I'm going with this is that I would gladly do something else as a career, go back to the stone age and all that, if you're footing the bill, LTC. I defy you to show me a company that doesn't use E-Mail, or require resumes by E-Mail or by electronic submission. Somewhere you're gonna have to touch a godless heathen made product to get a job.

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Old April 16th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #131
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There you go off half cocked again Lazerus2000! Ruining a perfectly good OP with a bunch of unnecessary facts/truth! We all need to stay on the OP please, thank you.

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Old April 16th, 2012, 10:44 AM   #132
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Great post Lazerus, you made a point that i really wanted to see, but couldn't for sure say for myself. To make this point you would have to have owned / shot many Polys over the years.

Quote:
most of the Chinese M14 clones are acceptable shooters right out of the box. HOWEVER, some Chinese M14 clones will definitely benefit from a bit of do it yourself tweaking, and probably from some GI parts swaps ... just like some of the USA built M14 clones..
There are some poor products for sale out there in the marketplace, but the chances of any of them being universally "unusable" out of the box, seem slim to none.

I can defiantly believe that some M14 smiths do not want to work on Polys. I can defiantly believe some have issues.

I think that if i were to acquire a polytech, i would check the headspace, and go shoot it.

If the headspace came back no go, i would replace the bolt.

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Old April 16th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #133
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Okay now my ire is up.
Ouch, I am terrified. I wouldn't want to upset an LTC. I was enlisted (77-79), learned that most "Officers" were totally dependent on their NCO's, the "Officers" couldn't run anything without help.

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Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
You do not know who I am or what I do. However, I do know what I am talking about. I am a US Army Acquisition Officer.
The same can be said about the rest of us, you don't have a clue who we are or what we do. I very much doubt you "know what you are talking about". Read the rest of this and see what I mean.

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Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
I read about counterfeit electronics everyday, both in the defense news and congressional testimony.
I don't shop at China Mart,
So all the Americans employed at Wal Mart, which I might add is an American company and employees Americans is being deprived of your money, makes sense, don't spend your money in Wal Mart, it hurts the Chinese. Brilliant.

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Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
but if I did it is much different buy a plastic brush than a weapon/parts from godless communists.
For someone who knows what they are talking about, you sure seem to be uninformed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China
Here is another direct quote:
Christians in China in 1970 (a sharp decline from earlier in the twentieth century because of Communist repression), and that there about 120 million today, with some 70 million in unregistered churches. Representing over 9% of the total population of 1.3 billion, this estimate, if correct, would constitute one of the most spectacular explosions in religious history.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
[COLOR="red"]I am neither a sellout or a government tool....I just choose not to buy communist chinese weapons
If you work for the Government, than it means you are a Government tool, you are supposed to be a LTC. Act like one.
Since these weapons have been here since the 90's, and Billy Boy Clinton banned all "Chinese" military weapons", the sales of these are between Americans, keeping the money right here, and they are selling these for a profit, and making money, just like a good "Capitalist" should. I applaud the endeavor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
[COLOR="red"]....and as an immigrant to the USof A I can see some of the reasons why our economy is so weak.
There is no patriotism anymore[COLOR="red"]
Afraid at this point you have called into the discussuion my "Patriotism" which means you are calling me out. I have served my country, carried a weapon in it's defense and suggest you apologize not only to me but to all the others here who have served and own one of your hated weapons. YOU don't know anything about me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
It is all about how cheap and what the preceived instantaneous value is.I suggest all of you who think Chinese firearms/parts are the best start your own business MANUFACTURING american parts."]
Hate to inform you bud, but buying low and selling high is "Capitalism" at it's best, if you don't like it go back find a Communist Country, move there, you will like the fact they control the price for everything, and oh yea, they also tell you what you can and can't buy. Yea you really understand how America works.

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Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
[COLOR="red"] I am sure that those on this form that make money out of working on chinese junk do it because they can make easy money and provide a service no one else does.
Making money seems to bother you, perhaps you would prefer another form of Government? Try Cuba, Russia, or any other Government run society, they would love your vote, that is if you could vote there.
Chinese junk, Hmmmm... another display on your part of your ignorance, they aren't junk, those weapons worked very well in Viet Nam, and most every other place they have been deployed. Perhaps your dislike for the Chinese flavors your ability to comprehend.
Easy money reference, just shows how much you hate capitalism, why don't you start your business and show how easy it is. You are just plain ignorant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
When I retire, which could be any day know I plan on making some of those parts to sell


If you want to sell to people in this country I suggest you review your business plan, the rest of the country plays by "Buy Low and Sell High" what business model are you going to deploy? If you don't figure it out you won't be in business very long. Your hatred of the Chinese will in fact hurt you, their country is the largest market in the world, get used to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
I do get a kick out of reading that people think it is okay to support a communist country/military industrial complex that would destroy us if it could
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro_USA1776 View Post
, do not allow their people political or other freedom, because they saved a few hundred dollars....now that is being a tool and a sellout!
Already addressed, let me try one more time, the M14S has been in Country since th early 90's Clinton banned them, I assume you support his effort to block these which means you support Clinton, not my choice but hey you do know how to run the country.

Now you call me a sell out and a tool, wow! Perhaps you should rethink this as the fool here is you, calling into question my allegance to this Country, calling me a "tool" and a sell out. Way to go LTC, ya make me proud.
Now sit down, apologize to the members you have insulted and shut up.

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Old April 16th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #134
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I live in America and we can not get new Polytech rifles. You say 1/3 of Polytech rifles needed work. I call that a bad chance. When a unknowning guy buys a Polytech is he getting a receiver or useable rifle? You have said you have 3 in your safe. You were a delear and a gunsmith. I take you picked the best for yourself. I could not do that.

SAI is hit or miss but you can get it fixed for free. Yes it sucks and it happened to me with serial number 124421. They replaced the rifle. There is no recourse with a Polytech in the USA. There are 10 happy SAI owners to every one unhappy one. There are threads that talk about SAI happy owners without the drama. Would I want a new SAI rifle, NO.

If you want a forged receiver then look at LRB. I don't know if you can get them in Canada but they are the good stuff. They are very expensive but you get first rate stuff. I had Jon Wolfe build me one with his barrel and it is everything a M14S should be. I will not fire a so so rifle next to my face to save a few dollars.

Thank you for your opinions, facts, and useful input.

Thanks from Pro_USA1776
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Old April 16th, 2012, 11:22 AM   #135
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we need to repeal the ban so that these rifles drop down to the previous prices, i'd defiantly then the RX would be worth working on maybe?

Also i want cheap Aks and SKSs

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