M14 Forum

jbrooks

The M14 gas system is an improvement over that of the Garand, indeed.

The gas piston and gas plug are hollow, so the impulse of the gas thru the port can spread out more slowly than simply hitting the tiny open space between the Garand piston and gas cylinder plug.

So in principle, as the piston begins to move to the rear, as soon as it moves a millimeter or so, the gas from the barrel is indeed cut off and is vented to the outside via the 6 grooves in the piston. As the piston moves all the way to the rear all the gas is vented to the outside.

Here's a pic showing the instant of venting from the bottom hole of the gas cylinder:

But, the system does have it's limits. Not sure what they are, but I wouldn't use any of those "light magnum" rounds.

Your M14 was designed to withstand this kind of trreatment, and you receiver is forged to boot. An extra-power spring will NOT be a good idea, IMO.

Attached Images

M14_Vent.bmp (532.1 KB, 33 views)

D308FAM

I join those that feel a recoil buffer isn't a bad thing and that it should be inspected regularly just like the rest of the weapon and be replaced if it appears to be suspect. They are not that expensive and I see them as disposable in the same way that I see grease as having a limited lifetime.
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I feel that in an M1A type rifle that the recoil spring is best left at "mil spec" and would not install an "extra power" recoil spring in my own weapons. I'm not worried about my handloads as I've long accepted that the M1A "is what it is" and don't try to hot rod the 308 Winchester to be what it is not. I keep the gunpowder-pressure curve- projectile weight curves within design specs and keep in my mind that both the weapon and cartridge need no excuses made for them as they both work just fine together. So I don't change what works as it's "not broke". If I thought is was "broke" I'd not own them.
If I'm not in a mood to care about pressure-time relationships between gunpowders and barrels and projectiles I choose a bolt action for those loadings.
If what the 7.62X51/308 Winchester has to offer in terms of ballistic performance is not adequate, I choose another weapons system and cartridge and switch to that one.
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I feel that the "take home" is being open to reasonable upgrade opportunities like a recoil buffer but not being drawn into redesigning the weapons system beyond what it really was originally designed to do. The M14/M1A was originally designed around the 7.62X51 NATO and that's the standard I keep in mind when using this weapons system and/or trying to decide if it meets my intended needs or not.
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To each his own but this is my opinion this morning for those who might care to consider it....

jmoore

Buffering the bolt would make sense. But there's no easy way of doing it, except as you note above. If it would slow the cyclic rate, that would be spectacular!

Plenty of older designs incorporated buffers, Browning used them a fair amount. But back then they were either bulky spring packages or leather/fiber pads that "quickly" broke down. It wasn't needed with the iron sighted Garand, IF the receiver's heat treatment was done correctly. (There WERE some dramas with that during the early days- heels needed to be annealed somewhat.)

As long as the world isn't ending I suspect I'll continue to use them on some rifles. If the world IS ending, then maybe I'll have time to pull them out. Whilst removing any battery operated goodies..of which none currently reside on the M1As.

NoExpert

I don't use one, I tried one long ago and it made clearing the weapon a bit more of a pain than I liked (had issues ejecting live and dummy rounds).

However, something to think about, the M14 has pretty exact specifications, right? I mean a few thousandths of an inch off can really throw a wrench in the works. Now you're adding an 1/8" of a hard rubber material to a place it was never designed to be... of course it's going to get beat up. It's like your teeth, they fit together a specific way, put some jerky between the top and bottom and it's going to get cut or crushed.

Personally I think for this type of buffer to work correctly, you'd need the same material and thickness in the heel stopping the bolt. The op rod and bolt were designed to stop together at the same time, you've now altered that by installing a buffer in only one location.

I'd rather put the money into a set of Tubb CS springs myself.

mercman

I have a few M14 style rifles and have been running a buffer on one of them for a year or so. It still looks pretty much like it did when I installed it and I've noticed no change in function or accuracy. I don't know what that says about the concept. I do change out recoil springs every 2k rounds or so, too.

dozier

I've run 2 M1As with both having a buffer, and a Tubbs extra power spring. Even with reduced powder loads/150 gr bullet/38-39 gr of IMR 4895/around 2350 FPS, I've never experienced a failure to function. I do inspect both the spring and buffer wear on a regular basis. There is just something comforting about eliminating Metal on metal contact. dozier

m14brian

In my Standard M1A, I have a buffer, extra power Wolff spring, and a Schuster vented plug and I have fired everything from 150gr commercial rounds to 175gr M118LR. I've fired everything you're "not supposed to" in it, soft point, steel case Russian crap, etc., with no failures except one isolated batch of reloads that I suspected weren't sized properly. That is the only ammo I had that day, so I know that was the culprit. Everything else has fired and functioned every single time with this setup. Now I say again, I wouldn't have this in my emergency rifle but for a target gun, why not? Sure, you can play without pads, Rugby players do, but is that best ? This is always a controversial subject, sure you don't need it, but it might be beneficial in the long run.
m14brian

m14brian

NoExpert,
You have a good point though, using these, you might just be transfering pressure to somewhere else by only buffering one point.
m14brian

bigblock

That was a good point and something to think about. That is why I like read this forum.

m14brian

I like to read what everyone has to say, especially the big players, even if I don't completely agree. They probably know something I don't and that's what formed their opinion on it.
m14brian

TREADMARKS

I have the buffers and xp recoil springs in both my M1As and and my FAL Para.

Never had an issue with either.

I actually don't feel it is an issue for the bolt, because the gaps between the oprod and bolt roller allow the bolt to move freely in that rear most position of the action.

If there was an option for a bolt buffer, I would try it if it were a sound design simply because I really don't appreciate the metal to metal "ring" in anything.

NoExpert

Here's another thought for both sides:

Who's heard of a damaged op rod or receiver from the contact made between them?

Who's heard of damage caused from running one of the buffers?

Personally, I haven't heard of either, so I choose to spend my money on other things.

What would be interesting is some high speed footage of the bolt and op rod moving with and without a buffer to see if the op rod starts moving forward before the bolt stops. Also with USGI, Wolf and Tubb springs installed just to see how much faster/slower the action cycles.

m14brian

You have great points, NoExpert!
Also, footage of how slow the op rod moves with a Schuster plug. I know there is some difference because I feel a slight difference and the brass doesn't throw as far. I swear by mine, but I wonder how they know precisely the claim of how many Lbs of pressure it takes off the action. I tried to Google it to find tests but found nothing.
m14brian

NoExpert

I think their "precise" claim is based on an exact load in an exact environment with everything controlled. Outside of that it's just a claim and a general idea of the pressure reduction. I also tried a Schuster bored and vented plug, wouldn't cycle my 144gr. surplus so it had to go. I have an SEI Socom plug on it now, it has .5cc more volume than a USGI plug. Turns the cycle from a punch to more of a shove. What I like is it's reliable from 144gr. to 175gr. and everything between.