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Upgrade to NM rear sight (self installation question)

This is a discussion on Upgrade to NM rear sight (self installation question) within the The M14 forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; So about a month ago I walked into my favorite gun shop to buy a Ruger 10/22 for my son who's about to turn 8. ...


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Old February 17th, 2012, 07:33 PM   #1
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Exclamation Upgrade to NM rear sight (self installation question)

So about a month ago I walked into my favorite gun shop to buy a Ruger 10/22 for my son who's about to turn 8. Some how a magnificent SA M1A followed me home as well. My wife wasn't happy but she let me keep it so it all worked out. I've found it's easier too ask for forgiveness because I'll never, under any circumstances get permission

I called SA about upgrading to the NM rear sights, and my knowledgeable representative informed me that rather than pay $260 I could order 4 parts totaling about $65; hooded aperture, windage knob and a spring and bearing, and use these to upgrade my rear sights to NM. I feel pretty comfortable doing this myself although, including scouring these forums, I have not been able to figure out exactly where the spring and bearing go, but I suspect they belong inside the windage nob...

So before I start pulling things apart, my question is this; Does any one have any advice or a resource I can use to guide me as I do this, or is this something I should take to my smith to have done? Thanks!
Zetsumei 68WM6


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Old February 17th, 2012, 08:00 PM   #2
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Welcome aboard, I haven't done a sight change, but there should be a thread covering it. Or one of the other members should be able to give you some guidance. Good Luck!

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Old February 17th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #3
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Here is picture showing the ball bearing. Search the forum on how to fit the hooded aperture, I think there is one somewhere.


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Old February 17th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #4
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easy money, they already milled the hole under the knob, with parts in hand and a screwdriver should take less than two minutes, tops.

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Old February 17th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave67k View Post
easy money, they already milled the hole under the knob, with parts in hand and a screwdriver should take less than two minutes, tops.
Good thing for sure on the later SAIs. I had a hole drilled on my 308 M1 Garand, the gunsmith busted a carbide drill. Another gunsmith busted one also when he drilled a hole in my 4 digit M1A.

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Old February 17th, 2012, 08:25 PM   #6
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Awesome, that's what I was expecting, just wanted to be sure. I appreciate the help gentlemen, thanks.

Zetsumei 68WM6


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Old February 17th, 2012, 08:27 PM   #7
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Nah its a do it yourself job. A couple of things I want to ask first. I see you did not include a rear sight base in the list of upgrade parts. I ask this because the NM rear sight base has a half moon cut out or a cup the same diameter as the rear sight aperture. This half moon looking cut out allows the rear sight rack(the toothed part on the aperture or stem) to go all the way down. If you don't have the cut out essentially you will be starting out whit the rear sight up a few clicks to start with.
The spring is the cover that goes over the entire sight. I will take a couple of pics in a minute and post them up. I just got one today in the mail from Lord of war.
On that note a real deal usgi nm rear sight will go for 200-300 dollars. There are five main pieces to the rear sight. four of which can be purchased from Sarco for 100 bucks and the aperture can be purchased at krieger for about 40 bucks. I am not so sure and I am sure others will confirm or deny I have to look at my SAI rifle but I don't know if you can use anyone else's on the rifle because they use a ball and detent to give you I believe the windage clicks. I would go for the whole smash with SAI. I would first make sure the dog ear is drilled for the ball and spring which would mean you have to remove yours.
These pics are, if I can say it a regular NM rear sight, no ball and spring.
Here are the main pieces the rack, spring cover, NM body with the recess for the aperture, pinion and windage knob.
Five main pieces to include a NM front sight


Spring cover

NM rear sight base

Rack with aperture

Pinion or elevation knob

Windage knob(fine thread)

NM front sight

If you look at the windage knob you will notice a screw in the middle of the knob. This is where the disassembly starts. Unscrew that all the way and then you will be able to unscrew the knob from the base. I am pretty sure that the ball and spring are between the inner surface of the knob and the outside of the right dog ear on the receiver. Then you slide the pinion out the other side and the rear sight will only be secured to the receiver by the spring. You will notice a small horizontal notch on the rear of the receiver where the spring is wedged into. It just pops out and then you can remove the rear sight base, spring cover and rack. Take note how the spring goes on under the rear sight base when you remove it. Assembly in revers order, you only need to screw the center screw on the windage knob two to three turns in most cases. That screw sets the tension on the pinion or elevation knob. Inside the pinion is a spring and all you are doing when you tighten the screw on the windage knob is setting the spring tension. To much and the knob is hard to turn, to little and it is sloppy. If the only way you can get it to work is having it to tight then more than likely your pinion spring is compressed and needs to be replaced. Hope this helps a little but Like I said I would see if your receiver dog ear is drilled for the ball and spring and get the SAI parts. I say this because I just checked my SAI M21 and it does not have the same machining as an LRB or gi spec receiver. The LRB's have recesses cut out in the side of the dog ear to mate up with the gi windage knobI did not see them on my M21 so you may only have one choice to get the bal and spring set up from SAI

Edit, I see that there have been a few replies since I started typing. As it has already been mentioned make sure the receiver is drilled for the ball and spring. If not you will have to have that done and might be prudent to send it to SAI for the entire job. I am also not certain that the SAI windage knob is fine thread, it may rely solely on the ball and spring to give you the smaller increments of change in windage. I never took my SAI rear sight off so I don't know for certain

Thanks from m14nm, Maxfr and Zetsumei
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Old February 17th, 2012, 08:47 PM   #8
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Okay, I’ll add my two cents worth also.

Don’t get a NM front sight, if you are serious about shooting irons, stick with the wider front sight for a while, it is far less tiring in slow fire to focus on than that skinny NM sight…

And “Regulate” the front sight down so you are only 2-3 clicks up from bottom to be zeroed for elevation at 200 yards. (but that is with a 6 O’clock hold for me), it'll be diffrent if you shoot a Navy Hold/center hold.

I recommend you shoot this new item first A LOT before putting a file to the front sight also.

Lots of folks here can give you lots of good information concerning the intricacies of “The Stick”… But mastering it across the National Match Course is a Masters Degree program in service rifle marksmanship and inner personal mental discipline.

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Old February 17th, 2012, 08:52 PM   #9
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I have to edit that the rear sight in the picture is not a NM rear sight. It has a 32 tpi threads on the windage knob. Thanks for pointing that out Nez. I just got it today and had not really given it the once over.

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Old February 18th, 2012, 01:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 82nd ABN View Post
I have to edit that the rear sight in the picture is not a NM rear sight. It has a 32 tpi threads on the windage knob. Thanks for pointing that out Nez. I just got it today and had not really given it the once over.
sorry about that warren, i never gave it a full run down before i sent it to you, i will take care of you rest assure

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Old February 18th, 2012, 06:48 AM   #11
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That's a AMU modified windage knob that takes the ball and spring setup. Its a USGI setup too, not SA Inc. You can see the notches in it for the ball to fall into.

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Old February 18th, 2012, 12:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lord of war619 View Post
sorry about that warren, i never gave it a full run down before i sent it to you, i will take care of you rest assure
Please don't give it a second thought, its all fine and dandy. Nothing to be sorry about it was an oversight on both our parts.

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Old February 18th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #13
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You can't just plunk a hooded sight onto a normal sight base, as it does not have a little half moon cut out. As a result, the hood bottoms out before the sight hits bottom, so you will need to cut a notch into the sight base.

Dunno if the sight base is hard, so maybe a rat tail file and some glbow grease is all you need.

Art

Thanks from Zetsumei
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Old February 18th, 2012, 08:20 PM   #14
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Well I got it all installed but it took me about 2 hours not 2 minutes. Although at least 45 of those minutes were spent face to the floor searching for a bearing I had launched across the room. . . When I was finally about to give up I found it, I had been laying on it probably the entire time. The spring that SA sent me was long enough to do the job twice and I didn't realize this upon my 1st attempt. The Hooded aperture took some work to get fitted as you stated.
I also dropped my elevation knob and a little piece chipped off. I super-glued it back on, but I was wondering if I should see if SA will cover this under warranty or If I should suck it up cause it's my fault for dropping it. It's practically unnoticeable, but I notice :D

Thanks for all the help!

Zetsumei 68WM6


Last edited by Zetsumei; February 27th, 2012 at 03:16 PM.
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Old February 18th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExpert View Post
That's a AMU modified windage knob that takes the ball and spring setup. Its a USGI setup too, not SA Inc. You can see the notches in it for the ball to fall into.
so in your opinion the set up i sold to 82nd ABN what would it be called and what set up will it suit best?

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