Originally Posted by mercman
First off let me say that I love my M14 style rifles. I've chosen them over H&K's, FALs and Valmets. That being said it is a dated platform that doesn't offer the modularity and inherent accuracy of the 'new' AR style of 7.62 rifles. The AR style rifles also have the added benefit of not having the 'sniper rifle' silohette that the bad guys in the sand box are looking for. To make the M14 into a viable sniper rifle the U.S. Military feels that upgrades like the Sage EBR need to be added to enhance the platform to make it a DMR weapo n.
For me it works because worst case I might have to knock some civilian troll out of his tree or shoot through a barricade to get him. As a sniper rifle of choice in a warfare scenario I would probably have to look at one of the AR10 style of rifle.
Am I buying one to replace my M14's? NO!
Dated platform? Is the M14 newer or older than the AR platform?
Here is some info on the AR platform:
ArmaLite sold its rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 to Colt in 1959. After a tour by Colt of the Far East, the first sale of AR-15s were made to Malaysia on 30 September 1959 with Colt's manufacture of their first 300 AR-15s in December 1959. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
Compare this to the dates surrounding the M14:
Springfield Armory began tooling a new production line in 1958 and delivered the first service rifles to the U.S. Army in July 1959. However, long production delays resulted in the 101st Airborne Division being the only unit in the Army fully equipped with the M14 by the end of 1961. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle
The AR platform was and is a terrible main battle rifle platform. The cartridge is designed from a varmit round for animals weighing less than 25lbs.
The AR platform is not reliable. If the failure rate of the AR platform happened to the Garand during WWII it would not be known as the "Greatest battle implement ever devised"
If the M14 platform is so "outdated" why is it even in the TOE of our current Military, I mean heck where is the trapdoor, or krag.
The M14 is the greatest main battle rifle ever designed.
The age of the AR platform is from the late 1950's, same as the M14 platform.
Weigh your AR 308 platform and tell me it is lighter than an M14, try and service your weapon after a serious jamb in the AR platform, and compare to the take down of a M14, hell look at the condoms for the muzzle, cleaning requirements, zip lock baggies for the AR platform, special lube, powder requirements, difficulty in cleaning the gas system, and God forbid a bolt carrier stuck in the buffer tube. (can you tell I don't like the AR platform)
You claim it is easier to add components to the AR platform, why, the M14 has the best sight system, bullet delivery system ever devised, does it really need extra components. The consideration, and thought put into the M14 design proves the system, it is timeless.
Read this: http://pattonhq.com/garand.html
2/3rd of the way down is an opinion held by many.
"The legend of the Garand was--and is--based upon the unassailable fact that the weapon, in spite of its theoretical weaknesses, WORKS--in the mud, in the rain, in the snow, and in the dust. History has irrevocably proven this beyond any possible doubt and it is important evidence that theory, however enticing it may appear to be, must be proven in the cold light of dawn. Those who forced the adoption of the 5.56mm and the M16 forgot this critical fact. And, in that cold light of dawn--this time in the steaming jungles of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos--the concept of saturation fire and general abandonment of the principles of individual marksmanship and weapon performance FAILED.
They failed because they were accepted as being the universal solution to all military problems and this attitude was transmitted during training to the troops. Tactics and weapons have been generated around this thesis for the last twenty years and have come back to haunt us. I know. I was there. I was one of those who wrote the letters to the families of those who had fallen in battle, one of the most difficult tasks of a commander. Many of those men died because of the failure of theoretically sound, but realistically invalid, policies. I saw it myself. Too many died because the 5.56 and M16 failed."
There is alot of info concerning the failure of the AR's in the desert, Jessica Lynch's convoy had a 90% failure rate of the AR platform, if this had happened during WWII what do you think would have happened. Even if you cut the rate in half 45% what do you think would have happened? For years our troops have been issued a weapon system that jambs.
One article, not saying it is the article just an artical: http://www.defensereview.com/weapons...-7-news-story/
Think about it, a varmit round? An aluminum receiver with forward assit? Direct gas into the action? Sand jambs it so fast it is amazing.
The claim that accesories can be added, look how long it took to get a flat top upper, what about the LRBM25? If the M14 had stayed as the choosen weapon how many models would have developed?