M14 Forum

Orlando

Squeeze the rear handguard and forearm of the stock together, all depepnds how much draw a partticular rifle has. Thats were you will see the difference

Boom Stick

From Mr. Fisher's first post, it states:

(4) Commercial or replica versions of as-issued military rifles are not permitted.


Would the CMP Special Garand fall under this category? I am thinking yes but what do I know. New barrel and new stock.

LavaTech

.... use parts consistent with USGI specifications and materials. The barrels are standard military contour, as are the stocks. They are not a commercial or replica version of an as-issued military rifle.

Tommo

Thank you very much Gus, as always excellent information!

akjaeger

Thanks Gus!
My 15 yr old son has been sharing my 5.4 mil springfield garand with me at the John C. matches this last year.
I got him a 5.8 mil springfield for Christmas, it will be fun to tune it up with him.

Gus Fisher

On NM Garands and M14's, most builders put a little bit more space between them than is absolutely necessary. We do this because we don't want the rear handguard rarely bouncing off the top in recoil and cause a flyer in an otherwise very accurate rifle we build. Such flyers can drive even we Armorers nuts at times.

With some commercial stocks and handguards, we also run into problems with 1. the wood of the rear handguard hanging down WELL below the area it locks into the lower band or 2. The way the ferrule fits on some commercial stocks is lower than it was on G.I. stocks. That can make either or both the right and left side top of the stock too tall. These things are much less often encountered with G.I. wood, but they CAN happen with G.I. wood, so you need to check these things with them as well.

What I want to see on a JCG rifle is the bottom of the handguard does not touch on ether side of the top of the stock when you hold the rifle ahead of the rear handguard with one hand and press the fore end of the stock upwards as far as it will go with the other hand. If it touches like that, you have to take a good look and see where you can best take wood off one or both parts. If the wood of the handguard hangs down way low under the part that goes into the lower band, then you probably need to take most of the wood off there. If the ferrule sits low in the stock, you are probably going to have to take wood off the top of the stock on one or both sides. For purely esthetic reasons, you may need to take some wood off both the bottom of the handguard and top of the stock on either or both sides.

Without looking at the way a stock and rear handguard comes together on an individual rifle, I'm sorry I can't say to take the wood off one place or the other all the time. The best way to do it is examine how the wood parts fit and then take a little wood off at a time to get the clearance and still make the parts "look" good.

Gus Fisher

The Special Grade the CMP sells is completely legal as they are talking about not allowing commercial or replica receivers.

bd111

With a respectably-authentic WW II Garand, and to perhaps less-dicey extent with a post-war, the handguard and stock trimming is a judgment call. Gus lays it all out. Bottom line, IMHO, is don't butcher a good-condition and good-fitting WW II stock or '50's-'60's USGI stock merely for the sake of JC Garand match shooting. The "dollar bill" test works well for me with a rifle at rest that has decent barrel draw at the band-ferrule, no rubbing inside, etc. I'll cradle the rifle with one arm and set my hand under the gas cyl, pull the sling tight with the other hand and observe for deflection. If it's bare-to-none the wood is GTG without further relieving.

Gus Fisher

[QUOTE=bd111;777445] Bottom line, IMHO, is don't butcher a good-condition and good-fitting WW II stock or '50's-'60's USGI stock merely for the sake of JC Garand match shooting. QUOTE]

Great point. I WOULD NOT use a WWII stock with any kind of cartouche left for a JCG Match rifle. From the 80's onward, WWII stocks went from reasonable and then later on to expensive, then outrageous. Though they did make millions of WWII stocks, every stock that is modified from the original shape is one lost to history.

A post WWII stock with a decent to good DOD stamp is getting hard to find and they are rising up in price as well.

There are only so many shooting seasons one is going to get out of a standard wood stock before it eventually gets beat loose from the recoil of enough rounds. IMO, it is far better to save the WWII and good Post WWII stocks and use either an old replacement G.I. stock or commercially made set of wood.

stevepelle91

Hey guys, time to resurrect this thread! The new wood for my JCG build is coming this Thursday and I had a few questions before I touched anything. I've read this thread at least 5 or 6 times, but found no mention of the "tilt test" and relieving the areas where the op rod binds against the stock. Is this a legal modification? What if the op rod binds on the stock ferrule or lower band? I'm also curious about the rear handguard. I read John C. Garand's words on accurizing his M1 and he mentions that the rear handguard should not be tight where it meets the lower band or else the pressure will be relieved when the rifle heats up, changing your point of impact. Are we allowed to relieve the wood in this area? I'd appreciate any input from you guys!

Gus Fisher

You can relieve the stock wood so the op rod doesn't rub hard on it.

If the op rod binds on the lower band, then you fix that by correctly rebending the op rod. That is legal as well. Same thing if you can bend the op rod so it doesn't bind on the ferrule. I don't think relieving/filing the lower band is legal, though you should send that question in directly to CMP for the official and correct answer.

You want to see daylight between the front of the receiver and the rear of the rear handguard. If not, you file JUST ENOUGH so there is that much clearance. I have found this has not been a problem for a while on CMP or Dupage rear handguards lately,though you should check for it.

stevepelle91

Thanks for the reply Gus! I had actually ordered a new lower band because the one I have is bent around and pretty beat up. We will see how everything fits and whether or not I need to have my op rod bent. I'm pretty sure the tab on it needs to be rebuilt as well. The rifle passes the tilt test without it falling off the tracks, but sometimes it will fall off when I'm trying to load it. I recently helped clean a friends rifle and we almost couldn't get his op rod off, yet mine comes off with ease. Maybe the op rob having a loose fit could cause it to bind on the lower band/ferrule? Sucks that I'm finding this out now as I'm headed to Ft. Benning on April 16th and wanted to have a match ready rifle for when I get out of Boot Camp. It actually ends for me in the last week on July and I was planning on spending a few days at Camp Perry.

bd111

I'm glad to see this thread and Gus's tips and everybody else's come back up with the season getting started. Make no mistake, competitive shooting nowadays is a $$$ chase on the equipment side. The JCG match is a notable exception. Enough $$$ will buy a super-accurate custom-built shooting iron. But the JCG-qualified "as-issued" rifle, bar none, is the most challenging project to put a winner together. The pleasant surprise is it's the most affordable.

stevepelle91

I was just thinking. How exactly does the op rod binding even effect accuracy? As far as I know, the op rod only moves a few tenths of an inch before the bullet leaves the barrel, so all the binding can't really effect it.

PhillipM

True that, but you've left out barrel harmonics. By your logic free floating a bolt gun wouldn't affect accuracy either. What it boils down to is harmonics as the bullet travels through the bore. Everything attached to the barrel will contribute some way and if the op rod is laying on wood it will introduce an out of sync vibration.