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CMP M1 special, 2.5 MOA your thoughts needed

This is a discussion on CMP M1 special, 2.5 MOA your thoughts needed within the M1 Garand Accuracy forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; So I did some testing this weekend with 4064 and Hornady 150 gr bulk FMJBT's. Looks like I'm averaging about 2.5 moa at 100 yds. ...


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Old April 11th, 2016, 04:20 AM   #1
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CMP M1 special, 2.5 MOA your thoughts needed

So I did some testing this weekend with 4064 and Hornady 150 gr bulk FMJBT's. Looks like I'm averaging about 2.5 moa at 100 yds. Best was 1.43 and worst was 5.38. The issue i'm seeing is I seem to be getting frequent vertical stringing to the tune of about 3-5 moa. Also I notice my initial cold bore shots tend to be way low and once I build some heat into the barrel things come up and settle down. I did some research and checked my stock and handguard fits per the expert tech posts here and everything looks right, maybe my front handguard is a bit too loose as it rattles a bit but this seems to be an ok situation. I shoot at a 9" paper plate and I also was observing a good 4 shot group with one flier not even on paper ? So the question with the bulk Hornady 150's is 2.5 MOA respectable ? I want to establish a good load with the bulk 150's simply for sling training ammo. I'll be shooting at a full size SR target so ultra precision is not mandatory. I believe i've identified a decent and consistent accuracy node at about 47.7 gr as 47.7 yielded a 1.7" group and 47.5 gr yielded 2.06". I plan on more testing of these loads to verify my initial #'s and see if I can cosistiantly repeate these groups. Shooting a consistent 1.7 MOA with an unmodified Garand seems a stretch but we will see..

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Old April 11th, 2016, 04:36 AM   #2
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Stock fit. Search the interwebs for cmp m1 stock fit and you will find all the pictures. Usually a CMP stock needs relieving in the barrel channel, where the oprod touches the stock (it shouldnt) and at the back if the stock where the heal is. You can usually see a divot where the bolt is bashing into the stock. The hand guard will need some fiting too. It's usually a little too long and puts too much pressure on the receiver. Just a little wood pass the retaining clip is all that is needed.

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Old April 11th, 2016, 06:27 AM   #3
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Bulk 150 FMJBT are not built for accuracy - they're built to be inexpensive.
You'll get better results and less frustration by using match quality HPBT bullets.

If you're shooting from bench you must be VERY attentive that EVERYTHING feels the same for each shot. If anything seems even a little different then fix it.
(and same when using sling ...)

My rifle (accurized 308W M1) also throws it's first after cleaning cold bore shot 3 moa low, 2nd shot is usually better. It helps to thoroughly dry-patch the barrel soon before shooting .... For 'important' cold bore shots (e.g. at a planned match) I don't do a complete barrel cleaning beforehand - just dry-patch to remove loose fouling and to completely dry the barrel.

When shooting, concentrate on SEEING exactly where the front sight is pointed when the rifle fires, and do good follow-thru until recoil is complete.

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Old April 11th, 2016, 07:17 AM   #4
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Tight manufacturing tolerances cost more to produce than loose tolerances.

Match grade bullets cost more than blaster grade bullets because match bullets are held to tighter manufacturing tolerances.

Tighter tolerances mean consistency. Bottom line is consistency in any manufactured product costs money. There is no way to get around this fact.

The M1 (and M14) have many design features that negatively affect accuracy/consistency. Specifically, heavy moving parts and a bunch of stuff mounted to the barrel.

There is a signal to noise ratio situation with these guns. The signal being shooter and ammo inputs. The noise being all of the dynamic stuff going on with the barrel before the bullet leaves the muzzle. In the case of a rack grade M1 or M14 the signal to noise ratio is pretty low.

A low s/n ratio means the shooter improves his technique or uses better ammo but the actual change on the target is smaller than expected.

The only way to insure accuracy/consistency out of these rifles is match conditioning. The net effect of these improvements is to reduce the "noise" in the system.

All that being said, you can still shoot enough cheap bullets out of a rack grade rifle to establish a reliable average group size, a group size extreme spread and a GS standard deviation. The standard deviation and ES will be large and thats OK if benchrest style shooting is your game.

A suggestion: Since you are shooting an SR target (I assume it is the SR-1 the 100 yd reduced version of the SR) why not forget the group size stuff and just shoot for a numeric plus X count score?

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Old April 11th, 2016, 07:28 AM   #5
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2.5 MOA with those bullets is pretty good.

All the above comments are spot on. The Special Grade is not a match rifle. bear in mind that the US military accepted up to 5 moa extreme spread for fielded Garands and M2 ball.

JWB

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Old April 11th, 2016, 07:45 AM   #6
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Handguard fit may be an issue. Front should be loose and rattle, rear should not touch the receiver.

My special grade shoots Hornady FMJBT at about 3" to 4" at 100, but gets below 2" with various Match Kings. 175s are the best for me.

J.

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Old April 11th, 2016, 12:39 PM   #7
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Thanks for all the feedback. Sounds like 2.5 MOA is very respectable for shooting the Hornady 150 FMJBT's. I just don't want to spend a lot of wasted time handloading for chasing 2 MOA if it's just not realistic. I want to get some training ammo loaded up and give the Garand some love practicing with a sling and irons at an SR target at our 200 meter range. Once I get well acclimated to the Garand I plan on stepping up to 168 Nosler CC's and then get serious about more refined testing

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Old April 11th, 2016, 02:55 PM   #8
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So I did some more research on the fitment of the Boyds stock and gave my Garand a close inspection and all the problematic contact points all seem to be fine. I did see this issue with the top handguard it looks like the handguard ferrule got smashed and bent at some point and is forced up against the stock sling clamp. Does this look correct ?




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Old April 11th, 2016, 05:03 PM   #9
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Ferrule should not touch. Front handguard should slightly move, rear handguard should also have small gap
If shooting off a bench do not rest the front handguard on a rest. Set the bag on the forearm

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Old April 12th, 2016, 06:11 AM   #10
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The end of the rear handguard can be easily trimmed so it's not pressing against the receiver without removing it. Just careful cutting of a very small gap with a sharp knife.

If the gas cylinder is pressing against the front handguard, then remove the gas plug and unscrew the gas lock 1 turn so there's some wiggle in the front handguard.

About the lower band and the stock ferrule - test by squeezing the stock and rear handguard together so there's a little movement. If everything returns to the same position when pressure is removed, then I wouldn't worry about it. And those contact points should get a little grease.

Jay Kosta
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Old April 12th, 2016, 06:25 AM   #11
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2.5moa is pretty good, I took 2nd in the Garand Match at Perry last year shooting one that does not much better than that. It is basically a CMP special, except I did the assembly. If you think about it, 2 moa is good enough to hold the ten ring. Those matches are won and lost in offhand anyway.
As far as your first shots being low, all my garands and springfields do that, You just have to account for it. But, like you noticed, once they heat up they settle in.
If you want the best you can get, make sure your gas cylinder is a tight peened fit, that the gas cylinder lock times to 6oclock, and your front handguard is slightly loose so that when things heat up it is not binding against the stock and cylinder.
Other things to check are the fit of the rear sight as you dont want a lot of wiggling, make sure the op rod is not hitting anything or rubbing, and have a 4.5lb NM trigger job performed.

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Old April 12th, 2016, 08:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akajun View Post
2.5moa is pretty good, I took 2nd in the Garand Match at Perry last year shooting one that does not much better than that. It is basically a CMP special, except I did the assembly. If you think about it, 2 moa is good enough to hold the ten ring. Those matches are won and lost in offhand anyway.
As far as your first shots being low, all my garands and springfields do that, You just have to account for it. But, like you noticed, once they heat up they settle in.
If you want the best you can get, make sure your gas cylinder is a tight peened fit, that the gas cylinder lock times to 6oclock, and your front handguard is slightly loose so that when things heat up it is not binding against the stock and cylinder.
Other things to check are the fit of the rear sight as you dont want a lot of wiggling, make sure the op rod is not hitting anything or rubbing, and have a 4.5lb NM trigger job performed.
I too have the CMP "special" in -06 . Very happy with the rifle. Looks like the CMP did some extra relief work on the wood as I compared my wood to many of the pics online and mine looks a bit different in certain areas. I'm going to correct my contacting handguard issue and call it done and get back to the all important range trigger time.

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Old April 12th, 2016, 11:48 AM   #13
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I just got my order acknowledgement email today from the CMP. That took almost 6 weeks. I ordered a M1 Special in 30-06.

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Old April 12th, 2016, 03:50 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by brianns View Post
I just got my order acknowledgement email today from the CMP. That took almost 6 weeks. I ordered a M1 Special in 30-06.
Awesome, the specials are worth the wait, they are really nicely made. You get a lot of rifle for the $1k . I ordered mine back in early Nov 2015 and it took a little less than 4 weeks. Once you get the "DBU" email things proceed pretty quickly. I didn't shoot mine much over the winter as I didn't want to be constantly digging for my brass in the snow. The Garands hurl the spent casings in every direction for like 15 feet.... PIA but it is what it is...


Last edited by richkay228; April 13th, 2016 at 01:16 PM.
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Old April 12th, 2016, 06:53 PM   #15
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Funny thing is, since my last post I got my shipping notification too. Notifications both in the same day. Apparently it's to arrive tomorrow. So the admin side is obviously behind or right on top of things. It's funny because the first e-mail is all about the order will process after the orders ahead,etc. But I guess that only took 4 hours. Might just be my turn to pull one off a rack of Specials to ship out. So that's almost a 6 week turn around. So I'm understandably stoked!

So I guess there's a chunky credit card transaction on my account now too. Well let's not dwell on that.

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