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Reloading M2 AP Rounds

This is a discussion on Reloading M2 AP Rounds within the M1 Garand Accuracy forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; I am about to reload some corrosive 30.06 M2 Armor Piercing. I'm going to pull the bullets, dump the powder, and punch out the corrosive ...


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Old November 16th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #1
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Reloading M2 AP Rounds

I am about to reload some corrosive 30.06 M2 Armor Piercing. I'm going to pull the bullets, dump the powder, and punch out the corrosive primers. How much IMR-4895 should I load to match the original M2 AP configuration?

Thanks.

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Old November 16th, 2013, 06:58 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott L. View Post
I am about to reload some corrosive 30.06 M2 Armor Piercing. I'm going to pull the bullets, dump the powder, and punch out the corrosive primers. How much IMR-4895 should I load to match the original M2 AP configuration?

Thanks.
By "dump the powder" do you mean save and reuse? Or get rid of? Personally, if I was reusing the powder I would weigh several powder charges to see what an average would be, then use that weight or cut by about .5 gr to reload.
But I tend to load to close to the original charge weights. I also don't shoot AP, but save it for special occasions.

I have actually pulled apart USGI AP rounds and found powder charges that exceded the maximum listed weights by 5%. When I reloaded, I just reduced the powder charge to "normal" weights.

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Old November 16th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #3
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Reloading M2 AP Rounds

I was thinking about reusing the powder, as it looks suspiciously like IMR-4895, but I reconsidered. For a start, I measured all the powder loads individually and they varied widely form 41.6 grains to 49.1 grains (most around 48.2 grains). also, the primers were in bad shape (the rounds were all from 1952) and about half the primers disintegrated will they were being removed. So, I decided to put in new powder and primers. By the way, the bullets weighted 162-163 grains.

Anyone have any pet loads for M2 Armor Piercing Bullets?

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Old November 17th, 2013, 06:44 AM   #4
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you seem to be OVER thinking this process. So often you get reloading questions about "how can I match" the original GI specs/velocity of M2, AP, etc.

the question I would recommend you think over is "WHY?" There is nothing "magic" about "x" fps with "y" bullet. The M1 will be reasonably happy cycling almost anything that generates 2000 fps and up.

You have a 162-165 grain bullet. Find a modest/reasonable load of 4895 suitable for this weight bullet in an M1 and load them up. While marginally more accurate than M2 ball (2.5+ MOA vs. 3.0++ MOA), AP bullets aren't worth the components/primers, etc. to me, but a bit of experimentation is always fun. People (for whatever reason?) will pay 1.00+ per round for this stuff, so THAT is what I would have done with this stuff.

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Old November 17th, 2013, 09:29 AM   #5
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What I would do is to weigh several of the dumped charges, get an average and replace it with the same amount of modern IMR-4895. If the old powder still has a strong ether like odor it's still good to go and I'd reuse it. Be sure to remove the primer crimp in the GI cases before attempting to reseat new primers.

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Old November 17th, 2013, 09:49 AM   #6
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What's the headstamp on your AP. A few years ago the CMP sold off a large lot of AP advertising it as being corrosively primed. Several members there did some extensive testing and found none or little of the offering was corrosively primed.

I bought a fairly large lot of it and treat it as corrosive when I clean even though probably not necessary. It's not that big a deal to clean for corrosive primers, just use hot water as a first step or spray some water-based window cleaner down the bore after shooting and before cleaning.

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Old November 17th, 2013, 12:55 PM   #7
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In answer to all the criticisms and questions (and the lack of answers),

Yes, I have three new reloading manuals (versions available, if you send a stamped, self-addressed envelope and a $20 Bill). None of them directly address this reloading question.

Headstamp is LC 52. Lake City Switched to non-corrosive on 4/52 (yes, I looked it up ahead of time, thanks for asking). Soooo, it may be corrosive or not. I would rather not chance it. If you like to tear down your rifle every time you shoot and treat with water based cleaners that can also cause corrosion, more power to you. I'd rather not.

M2 AP was used as the sole 30.06 ammunition for whole/part of WWII theaters (Italian, part of the Pacific, etc). The military seemed to think it was OK to shoot it at 2,715 fps - and we somehow manged to win the war without downloading it to 2,500 fps. So, I would like to load my ammunition to the specifications that have been shown over the last 70+ years to work the action consistently and deliver optimum performance in the M1 Garand. Besides, what is the use of firing a downloaded AP round that barely makes it out the barrel? So, I plan to load it to somewhere near military specifications (Yes, I realize that IMR-4895 of old was not as hot as current IMR-4895, hence the question) and I will take the chance that it will cause barrel wear, hair loss, lupus, global warming, and continental drift. Sue me.

So, I would appreciate it if you would answer the actual question, not question whether I know what I am doing. Is that too much to ask?

Thanks.

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Old November 17th, 2013, 02:04 PM   #8
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uhh, did you think about grabbing one or more of your reloading books and then LOOKING up the 165 grain data? Not that difficult and 2-3 grs difference is inconsequential. Of course some people are silly enough to think they need EXACT data for every single bullet weight, even with a 1.5% difference in bullet weights between the data/weight in the manual and the bullet in hand. Oh well.

47 grains of IMR 4895 yields (around) 2715 fps with a 165 grain bullet at around 58,000 psi. This is with commercial brass and standard primers, so loading up what you THINK you want, with the powder you plan to use, gets you a warm to HOT load.

Frankly, I would (again) simply load up 44 grs of 4895 (were I to waste my time with AP bullets) and then not have to worry about what type of primer or brass I was using while still getting 100% reliability.

Finally, AP actually produces significantly LESS wear to barrels/bores than M2 ball (per Arsenal testing circa 1949 IIRC).

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Old November 17th, 2013, 02:40 PM   #9
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M2 AP Reloading

Hugo Uno,

I'm looking for someone to answer this thread who is less condescending and more experienced in reloading M2 AP than you.

If you aren't interested in reloading M2 AP and look down on anyone who is (paraphrasing your words), stop answering. Please let someone else handle this one. Everyone who is interested in a different aspect of M1/M14 reloading and shooting is not automatically wrong and stupid.

Bottom Line: if this is your idea of being helpful, stop helping.

Thanks from TheShooter
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Old November 17th, 2013, 03:06 PM   #10
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I understand that you seem to reject what you don't want to hear, but the facts is the facts. you likewise (continue) to make a bunch of assumptions, including, but not limited to, what level of experience I have had loading up AP bullets. The reason I don't recommend loading up eith M2 or AP bullets is the fact that I tested them myself (out of pure curiosity). Finally, if you don't understand that a certain bit of abstraction with loading data when a bullet weight falls between two "standard" weights is perfectly OK, cest-la-vie.

I looked back over my picture files and found this from a couple years back (IIRC) with a "stock" non-match M1. (PS, IIRC, this was the best group out of three or four--not the flyer issues despite the sub MOA result for 4 rounds--very typical of pulled GI bullets).


Last edited by AKA Hugh Uno; November 17th, 2013 at 03:53 PM.
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Old November 17th, 2013, 03:09 PM   #11
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As per 3rd. Edition, May 1993, "The M1 Rifle-History, shooting & accurizing the first gas operated U.S. Service Rifle" load which approximate performance of military ammunition "USING COMMERCIAL RELOADING COMPONENTS, INCLUDING CASES" are listed as follows:

165/168gr bullets w/ IMR 4895 is stated at 47grs.

NOTE: In your situation, USING MILITARY BRASS, the same article advises powder charges should be reduced by 1.5grs. Since your bullets are weighing slightly less than 165 the above powder charge should be good to go. Book lists various other powder/brass/bullet/primer loads ranging from 147gr up to and including 180gr. Don't necessarily agree with the 180's in the Garand, but it is listed with obviously less of a charge.

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Old November 17th, 2013, 03:13 PM   #12
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Stop Talking

Limited experimenting does not make you the most experienced in the topic. You are rude and arrogant and I'm tired of hearing your insults. Stop talking.

Love you too!

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Old November 17th, 2013, 03:16 PM   #13
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Thanks Instructor

Thanks Instructor. Good information without editorial comments and insults.

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Old November 17th, 2013, 03:28 PM   #14
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M2 AP Loads

I had some Loaded rounds and took a few apart and found Powder weight was on AVG. was 51.0 grains what looked like 4895, that was years ago, wrote it down.

I loaded some loose bullets I had laying around and used 46.0 of IMR 4895, I had used 47.0 grains of 47.0 IMR 4064 also.

The 46.0/4895 it would not cycle my BAR, Contacted Ohio Ordinance, they said to open the Gas system all the way open, and it would not hurt it, then it would work OK.
Put the same load in my Garand, and it worked fine.

Keep in mind the bearing surface of the bullet not just the weight, the 163 AP does have more than a 168 Seirra.
I use the 46.0/4895 for my Garand in my CMP Matches and do quite well with it.


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Old November 17th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #15
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Was going to suggest to post your question on the CMP boards, but in searching there for your answer, I see you already have.

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