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ideas for an old west m1 grarand or m14

This is a discussion on ideas for an old west m1 grarand or m14 within the M1 Garand Accuracy forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; ok i know there is alot of stuff for updating a firearm to modern standards but i like the older guns. if you have seen ...


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Old March 28th, 2013, 09:58 PM   #1
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ideas for an old west m1 grarand or m14

ok i know there is alot of stuff for updating a firearm to modern standards but i like the older guns. if you have seen the ar-10 with the walnut stock and color case harden receiver you know what i'm talking about. i want to get some ideas for a build i want to put together i dont know witch gun to use yet. the only things i've come up with so far is brass butt plate and color case harding the recevier ( i just hope it doesnt mess up the receiver). i'm not looking for NM ideas i just want it to have the old west look and feel.
i'm open to any ideas so just throw them out and we can sought though the details later.

http://www.turnbullmfg.com/

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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:43 PM   #2
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In the 18th century, the "M1 Garand" for the American Colonies was the British Brown Bess Musket until the Revolutionary War when we got French St. Etienne or "Charleville" Muskets and then copied the French Muskets for as long as we produced Flintlock Muskets from Springfield, Harpers Ferry or the Virginia Manufactury of Arms. In the Mexican War, the "M1 Garand" was the Model 1841 "Mississippi" Rifle. In the Un Civil War, it was the Model 1861/63 Springfield as the Issue Standard or pick any one of a number of breech loaders they issued. During the Indian Wars, the Trapdoor Springfield was the period "M1 Garand."

I know guys who have done Case Hardening and one guy even stopped by I think it was Holland and Holland in London to show them the parts he did and he did not think had enough "color" to them. The gentleman who did the Case Hardening at Holland and Holland saw nothing wrong with ANY of the color on the parts he brought with him. He just shrugged his shoulders and said, "Sometimes you get more color than other times."

With what I know of REAL Case Hardening, there is NO WAY I would have it done to an M1 Garand Receiver as it would most likely screw up the surface hardness. There are some folks who have done some "painted on" or "color added" finishes that look like Case Hardening, but are not actually case hardening. Many repro Civil War gun locks were so colored. However, I don't know how the process was done or who did it.

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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:50 PM   #3
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I have a 2nd gen Colt 1851 Navy (made in Hartford, Conn) that has REAL bone charcoal case hardening on the frame, and the colors are absolutely stunning.





For more pics of my Colt Navy:

post your revolvers here


Last edited by Diablo Gato; April 1st, 2013 at 10:27 AM. Reason: added pics
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Old April 1st, 2013, 09:00 AM   #4
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Something to remember is "Color" Case Hardening was done as a way to harden IRON or low quality steels in Flintlock and Percussion Locks and parts, Iron frames for Colt and other muzzleloading revolvers, IRON frames for Henry and the Earlier Winchester rifles and other lever action rifles and lockplates and parts for Double shotguns - because making steel parts was too costly or the steel alloys were not nearly of the metalurgical quality of even the early 19th century. Color Case hardening would put a surface hardness on even Iron and "make up" for lower quality alloy steels.

With the exception of Double shotguns and reproductions of earlier guns, it has pretty much gone by the wayside because steel alloys are much more certain and surface hardening techniques required for the pressures of many modern guns can not be done well with case hardening. Color Case Hardening of the old style would not stand up near as long in Garand or other Gas Guns.

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Old April 1st, 2013, 09:12 AM   #5
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Though I'm going a bit off topic, this reminds me of a 100 percent MINT 1858 Remington ..44 percussion revolver I was priviliged to handle in the mid 80's. It was not Color Case Hardened, but the WHOLE revolver was the richest Royal BLUE I ever saw. It wasn't black or bluish black, it was BLUE. It was SO GOOD, I thought it was some kind of fake. However, I learned that kind of Rust Blue was done with CYANIDE and that's the reason no one does it anymore.

Now, Rust Bluing would not mess up the surface hardness of the parts and would give all the parts except the GC, GC lock and GC lock screw (all of which are stainless steel) that "Old West Look." HOWEVER, I would hate to even estimate how much it would cost because it is so labor intensive AFTER you stripped and polished the parts that show and hen process the parts. You would NEVER get anywhere close to your money or time back on it.

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Old April 2nd, 2013, 06:15 PM   #6
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I have some magnum caliber rifles with color case hardening.

The technique typically used for those (modern steels) is a potassium cyanide/chemical bath.

It gives very nice colors (done correctly of course), and doesn't interfere with any of the desirable metallurgic characteristics of modern, uniform steels.

A Garand would look beautiful done that way, but it's going to set you back $150 to $200 for case hardening alone (and I am speaking of only the receiver). Part of the beauty of a nice firearm sporting color case hardening is the polishing that is done before (and to a limited degree after) the chemical treatment. That's extra.

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Old June 18th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #7
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I'll toss my 02 cents in for what is worth. I'd skip the case hardening and try to find some amazing wood I like the brass butt plate and maybe take it farther and make the stock furrel brass if you can. I'd top it of with NM sights and to me I think it would be unique hope that helps.

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Old June 18th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #8
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Wear some old west clothes, put an electronic gizmo on your shirt, tell people it's for time travel where you went into the future to get "modern. futuristic" rifles...

and then have fun!

Bruce

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Old June 18th, 2013, 10:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Fisher View Post
Something to remember is "Color" Case Hardening was done as a way to harden IRON or low quality steels in Flintlock and Percussion Locks and parts, Iron frames for Colt and other muzzleloading revolvers, IRON frames for Henry and the Earlier Winchester rifles and other lever action rifles and lockplates and parts for Double shotguns - because making steel parts was too costly or the steel alloys were not nearly of the metalurgical quality of even the early 19th century. Color Case hardening would put a surface hardness on even Iron and "make up" for lower quality alloy steels.

With the exception of Double shotguns and reproductions of earlier guns, it has pretty much gone by the wayside because steel alloys are much more certain and surface hardening techniques required for the pressures of many modern guns can not be done well with case hardening. Color Case Hardening of the old style would not stand up near as long in Garand or other Gas Guns.
Doug Turnbull routinely does Color Case Hardening on magnum Ruger single action revolvers, so obviously they, at least, have figured out how to not compromise the strength of the receiver. Granted, a Ruger Blackhawk ain't a Garand. I would think that it would be worth a phone call or an e-mail to find out if they can do it or not, though.

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Old June 19th, 2013, 01:05 AM   #10
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If you push up on the trigger housing while you do it,you can fire the m1 as a lever,and not a semi.Just remove the gas cylinder lock screw and eject with the op rod handle,and cock with the trigger guard.

Thanks from Dave P
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Old June 19th, 2013, 01:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Fisher View Post
Though I'm going a bit off topic, this reminds me of a 100 percent MINT 1858 Remington ..44 percussion revolver I was priviliged to handle in the mid 80's. It was not Color Case Hardened, but the WHOLE revolver was the richest Royal BLUE I ever saw. It wasn't black or bluish black, it was BLUE. It was SO GOOD, I thought it was some kind of fake. However, I learned that kind of Rust Blue was done with CYANIDE and that's the reason no one does it anymore.

Now, Rust Bluing would not mess up the surface hardness of the parts and would give all the parts except the GC, GC lock and GC lock screw (all of which are stainless steel) that "Old West Look." HOWEVER, I would hate to even estimate how much it would cost because it is so labor intensive AFTER you stripped and polished the parts that show and hen process the parts. You would NEVER get anywhere close to your money or time back on it.
I have seen some cimarron revolvers have that same royal bluing too. Its really pretty, but not something I would pack along with me up on elk hunts. I remember hearing somewhere that they used Cyanide to get the color of the case hardening, but I didn't think that it was used to get that royal blue.

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Old June 19th, 2013, 01:55 AM   #12
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Has any body ever heard of color case hardening using Bone meal?
I seem to recall seeing a article where they took a Winchester 1892 receiver and put it inside a piece of pipe with a cap welded on one end and packed bone meal around it very tight and put another cap on the other end and tossed it in a fire, they covered it with red hot coals and let it sit until it was cool. they took it out and removed the cap and dumped it out and it had a beautiful CCH finish. I dont know how hot it got but I would not think it would have went over 700, it did not have any forced air or any thing, I have a junk M1 receiver, maybe I will try it and see what it does.

Casey

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Old June 19th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Humperdink View Post
If you push up on the trigger housing while you do it,you can fire the m1 as a lever,and not a semi.Just remove the gas cylinder lock screw and eject with the op rod handle,and cock with the trigger guard.
Ejecting the empty with the op rod will cock the hammer also. No need to mess with the trigger guard.

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Old July 16th, 2016, 10:14 AM   #14
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Add a saddle ring?

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Old July 16th, 2016, 10:39 AM   #15
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How about a couple feathers hanging off the forward sling point and some decorative brass tacks in the stock?

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