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Smacks me in the face

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Old January 22nd, 2013, 07:01 PM   #1
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Smacks me in the face

Hey guys,
First time posting in the M1 page, but that's what I'm shooting now so here's my first question.

I was brought up through the "Appleseed" program and learned my shooting positions there. I really have no competition experience so that may show in my discourse, but part of my instruction includes the "turkey neck" where you should stretch your head forward all the way so that during recoil your cheek weld remains fixed in one place. your head basically can't go any farther forward so it stays put.

unfortunately, with my m1 that results in my cheek bone comfortably nestled on the butt of the receiver. not the softest thing to say hello to during recoil. also, the right side of my upper lip seems to be on the top part of the stock just behind the receiver. I left the range saturday with a nice fat lip and a punch (or twenty, or 48) in the face. Did I take the "turkey neck" a little too far? Would it help to post a picture? Any other pointers?


Thanks,
J

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Old January 22nd, 2013, 07:11 PM   #2
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If you are tall enough, I'd recommend a spot weld over a stock weld. In any event, maybe a pad type cheek riser would do the trick.

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Old January 22nd, 2013, 07:15 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by GARRARD View Post
If you are tall enough, I'd recommend a cheek weld over a stock weld. In any event, maybe a pad type cheek riser would do the trick.
I'm 5' 9.5" yes, 9-and-a-HALF, thank you... ;)

being too tall is not the problem
please explain "cheek weld" vs "stock weld"

thanks

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Old January 22nd, 2013, 07:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCB View Post
I'm 5' 9.5" yes, 9-and-a-HALF, thank you... ;)

being too tall is not the problem
please explain "cheek weld" vs "stock weld"

thanks
Here's an adequate description I pulled from the interwebs. This is also in the M14 FM.

The spot weld is the point of firm contact between the sniper’s cheek and thumb on the small of the stock. The firm contact between the head, hand, and rifle enables the head and weapon to recoil as one unit, facilitating rapid recovery between rounds. The spot weld also enables the eye to be positioned the same distance behind the eyepiece (eye relief) of the scope each time the rifle is aimed and fired. This guarantees the same field of view with each sight picture, further assisting in accurate aiming.

If the sniper is unable to obtain a spot weld, he should obtain a firm stock weld on the rifle. The placement of the sniper’s cheek against the stock should remain consistent from shot to shot. The head should not move during reloading, clearing malfunctions, manipulating optics, or inter-team communications.

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Old January 22nd, 2013, 07:24 PM   #5
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Turkey neck

Turkey neck and cheekweld are right out of the army manual for the Garand. I use them when shooting my Garand (or M14, or .22...) With my Garand, I do get a bump in the nose from the heel of the receiver with every shot. Its not as strong as a punch, and I tolerate it well. How is your sight alignment? Do you rest the whole weight of your head on the stock? If you find that you must lift your head a little, try to build up your stock with some padding and tape. This will have the added benefit of moving your head a little further towards the rifles butt.


Last edited by libertynow; January 22nd, 2013 at 07:29 PM. Reason: Dang autocorrect on dang phone...
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 08:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GARRARD View Post
Here's an adequate description I pulled from the interwebs. This is also in the M14 FM.

The spot weld is the point of firm contact between the sniperís cheek and thumb on the small of the stock. The firm contact between the head, hand, and rifle enables the head and weapon to recoil as one unit, facilitating rapid recovery between rounds. The spot weld also enables the eye to be positioned the same distance behind the eyepiece (eye relief) of the scope each time the rifle is aimed and fired. This guarantees the same field of view with each sight picture, further assisting in accurate aiming.

If the sniper is unable to obtain a spot weld, he should obtain a firm stock weld on the rifle. The placement of the sniperís cheek against the stock should remain consistent from shot to shot. The head should not move during reloading, clearing malfunctions, manipulating optics, or inter-team communications.
I appreciate the description of the concept of "spot weld". but i'm not sure it really explains the difference b/w "stock weld" and "cheek weld". Does "spot weld" refer to one or the other of those?

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Old January 22nd, 2013, 08:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertynow View Post
Turkey neck and cheekweld are right out of the army manual for the Garand. I use them when shooting my Garand (or M14, or .22...) With my Garand, I do get a bump in the nose from the heel of the receiver with every shot. Its not as strong as a punch, and I tolerate it well. How is your sight alignment? Do you rest the whole weight of your head on the stock? If you find that you must lift your head a little, try to build up your stock with some padding and tape. This will have the added benefit of moving your head a little further towards the rifles butt.
I'll pay attention to that next time. thanks.

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Old January 22nd, 2013, 08:44 PM   #8
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I should clarify that this only occurs in the seated position. not prone.

and yes, it seems i do have to raise my head slightly to get alignment. will look into building up the stock some.

can someone recommend a good book or other reference on good shooting position?

thanks

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 07:41 AM   #9
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You need to find what works OK for you.
GI 'basic training' type books show what works for many of the military age & size people - but not necessarily what will work for you.

I've seen the term 'spot weld' used to describe pressing the cheek bone hard against the thumb. This might or might not work for you - it doesn't for me.

My technique is to keep my face well back from the rear sight & receiver, with my head held firmly on the stock.
I pull the butt of the stock firmly into my shoulder with a firm grip on the stock.
Maintain the grip and head position on stock until recoil is complete - that forces my head to move rearward WITH the stock in recoil.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCB View Post
I appreciate the description of the concept of "spot weld". but i'm not sure it really explains the difference b/w "stock weld" and "cheek weld". Does "spot weld" refer to one or the other of those?
A spot weld is where you put your cheek firmly on the thumb of the hand that is gripping the small of the stock. A stock weld is where you put your cheek on the stock. As I pointed out earlier, and as Jay Kosta reemphasized, your size might not allow you to utilize a spot weld, in which case I recommend a pad. I use the spot weld but I'm 6'2" so it's easy for me. I prefer it because it forces me to keep my eye the exact same distance from the rear sight every time I fire.

Jay Kosta brought up a good point about moving with the recoil and not fighting it. It's hard to say what's going on without seeing you shoot, but is it possible that while you are trying to turkey neck, you are resisting the recoil of the rifle? I think that would explain why it is kicking you in the face.

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 01:38 PM   #11
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I'm 6'2 as well here are a few pic's, you need the learn too ride/roll with the recoil, here's a couple of the wife doing it as well and shes only 5'4 and shoots the M1 pretty good .
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 01:46 PM   #12
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Damn, why didn't I think of pictures? Here's one with me firing my M1A, but this is the weld I have on any rifle with that kind of stock.


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Old January 23rd, 2013, 03:21 PM   #13
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Huh... I've been shooting mine with my thumb alongside the shooting hand's side of the grip because I get punched by my thumb if I don't. I'm gonna try the spot weld.

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 05:06 PM   #14
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Thanks all.
I'll try the spot weld tonight in the living room. looking forward to saturday even more now :)

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:26 PM   #15
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You are not doing anything wrong, I am an Appleseeder and I note that the M1 stock seems slightly shorter than the M1A stock.

I turkey neck/cheek weld (stock weld) behind my thumb with the M1A, but come much closer to the thumb on the M1. Yes, I eat a little thumb somtimes.

Perhaps you could pad the shoulder of your coat a little if you don't use a shooting jacket that has a pad there. THis would push the reciever a tad further away.

Everybody's body is different.

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