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Paging Gus, Art or Ted! Bedding a Garand

This is a discussion on Paging Gus, Art or Ted! Bedding a Garand within the M1 Garand Accuracy forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; I'm rebedding my LRB in the next couple of days. After that. Phil McGrath asked me to try bedding his M1 Garand 7.62. I accepted ...


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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #1
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Paging Gus, Art or Ted! Bedding a Garand

I'm rebedding my LRB in the next couple of days. After that. Phil McGrath asked me to try bedding his M1 Garand 7.62.

I accepted the challenge but need to know what will be different or what to do differently than an M14.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Tony.

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Old December 17th, 2012, 06:07 AM   #2
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M1 bedding

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Originally Posted by tonyben View Post
I'm rebedding my LRB in the next couple of days. After that. Phil McGrath asked me to try bedding his M1 Garand 7.62.

I accepted the challenge but need to know what will be different or what to do differently than an M14.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Tony.

Tony,

The bedding of a M1 has differences from a M14/M1A, thank you for asking, Gus and Ted have more experience.. Art

Thanks from tonyben and wadeanders
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Old December 17th, 2012, 07:26 AM   #3
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Tony,

First of all on a Garand, you can NOT form a "bridge" of glass on the stock under the forward section of the receiver like we do on M14's because of the parts that affect timing are located right under that spot. So basically you bed a Garand on the sides of the stock, on top and on the bottom.

Second AND THIS IS HUGE or you will crack or bust out the stock when using our modern bedding compounds that don't have any "give" to them. Just forward of the area on the receiver where the forward part of the clip latch goes, the bedding surface rises in an arch and goes up over the top of the stock and on the surface plane of the top of the stock on the left side. Just forward of the receiver, the rear handguard is just above that surface plane of the stock where the handguard is over it. I hope this description comes across as I don't have a computer capable camera. Where that arch is just ahead of the clip latch, wood stocks are made with a 2 degree curve and or where they don't QUITE touch the arch of the bedding surface as it rises going forward. I'm talking about the upright surface of the wood.

In that upright surface just left of the clip latch pin, if you glass bed the receiver as normal, it will fill in that curve with bedding material. When it does that, you are just BEGGING for the stock to crack or bust out there. (Ask me how I know. Grin.) When I was first taught to glass bed a Garand, we used the old Fenwall fiberglass and before that they used micro bed. BOTH of those earlier bedding compounds had more "GIVE" than modern Bisonite, Marine Tex, or other bedding compounds so we never had this problem. The FIRST time I glassed a Garand with Marine Tex, it busted out the chunk of wood there. Fortunately there is and EASY way to ensure this doesn't happen.

OK, now that upright surface of wood on a standard wood stock, just to the left of the clip latch pin, SERVES A VALUABLE PURPOSE. It keeps the clip latch pin fron working out to the left. So when you glass bed, that surface needs to be CLOSE to the upright bedding surface of the receiver, but not quite TOUCHING the receiver. What you must do is form a very thin "wedge" of clay in there on the receiver before you bed the receiver and the larger portion of clay is towards the bottom. What I do is pack some clay in there. I cut the clay at the outside level of the receiver by slicing it even with the outside edge of the receiver. You cut the bottom flush with the receiver bedding surface under the clip latch. The LAST cut on the clay is the most important. MAJOR REWRITE FOR CORRECTION FOLLOWS. You begin the cut at the corner just to the left of the clip latch and go up and forwards at a VERY SLIGHT ANGLE OF 2 DEGREES OR JUST WHERE YOU CAN SEE IT IS AN ANGLE. So what you have left is sort of an upside down wedge with the thick side of the wedge of clay on top. The left side of the wedge is straight and the right side fills clay into the arch. What we are doing with the clay is straightening out the arch and angling it down and back at 2 degrees so the corner of the receiver won't catch there on the way in or out of the stock. I HOPE this description is clear.

This clay you leave in there is NOT much more than a sliver, but if you don't get it in there before you bed the stock, it is way too easy for that corner of the stock or bedding to crack or bust off there.

More in the next post.


Last edited by Gus Fisher; December 17th, 2012 at 09:01 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 08:13 AM   #4
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OK, now for the top of the stock. Tony, in your bedding tutorial, I'm pretty sure you taped the top of the stock behind the rear of the receiver legs on an M1A so as to leave only a "horseshoe" of glass around the rear heel on the stock and that is EXACTLY how you bed the heel of a Garand receiver. UNLIKE an M1A receiver where you CAN bed the whole area under the heel, you MUST HAVE that tiny up and down clearance under a part of the heel of the receiver. Basically, you want contact from the very rear of the heel going forward for about 1" to 1 1/8". Then you want to just see light between the top of the stock and the bottom of the receiver heel as it goes forward to the rear of the receiver legs. Two thicknesses of masking tape on top of the stock in this area will normally give you the clearance you need. If you glass bed under the entire heel of the receiver on an M1, I can pratically guarantee it will cause timing problems.

Basically you glass bed on top of the stock like you do an M1A, though you need to put some bedding material on the left forward side as it rises over the top left side of the stock. Though it isn't absolutely necessary, I ALWAYS fill in the void in the receiver for the clip latch with clay so bedding material does not get in there and cause a problem getting the receiver out of the stock the first time you bust it out of glass. When you clamp the receiver, stock and trigger mechanism with the mixed bedding material inside when you do the glass job, just go ALL around the receiver and clean off the glass that squooshes out and clean it right to the receiver all around. Clean it from ahead of the receiver on the left side all the way back, around the heel, going forward on the right side and don't forget in front of the receiver on the right side.

You also have to ensure you get clay in the void of the receiver that is under the clip latch and on the surface of the left rear leg of the receiver. Cut it flush with the outer surface of the receiver. You also have to fill in that hole on the left side the same. Otherwise you clay up the receiver exactly like an M1A.

OH, so I don't forget. On a GI stock, I always fill the 1/2 round clearance cut for the tail of the clip latch with clay. On a Boyd's or other commercial stock, that cut is too far backwards so I roughen inside that clearance cut so the glass will stick and fill it with glass. After the bedding material sets up, I cut the clearance back into the stock and the clay from the receiver will show you where the center of the clearance cut has to be. That clearance cut is a 1/4" round half of a cylinder. Measure from the top of the stock to the bottom of the cut before you bed it and write it down so you know how deep to cut it after the bedding sets up.

OK, NOW you have to decide how much of a "technically advanced" glass job you are going to do. The first glass jobs that Springfield published a small booklet on in the early 60's and the NRA copied and published for years, basically only glassed the top and bottom of the stock. Springfield Arsenal actually used this bedding procedure on the stocks they reinforced with fiberglass on the Infantry M1 rifles of the rebuilds they did in the 1960's for long term storage. If you see a standard GI stock with channels of off white fiberglass that have yellowed on the bottom or the bottom and top of the stock, that's what I'm refering to. However, that is a pretty poor method by today's standards as there is not NEAR enough glass bedding used.

OK, I have to cut it off here for now as I have to get ready to go to the VA hospital for my follow up after I was in the hosptal for bronchitis. However, there is MUCH MORE to come and I will post more later.

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Old December 17th, 2012, 10:06 AM   #5
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I glass bedded my DCM Garand in '91 using the NRA publication Gus Fisher mention in his post. It explains pretty well what he describes, including the receiver legs using diagrams and pictures.

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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #6
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Tony,

Sorry about “hopping around the subject” and before I forget to mention this, I have to talk about the differences between the front bottom edges of Garand receivers. There are TWO ways the front bottom edges were machined. This normally only concerns M1 Collectors, but it ALSO concerns those of us who do glass bedding. There are highly technical ways of describing the two types and they are: 1. Round bottom front receivers and 2. Clipped or angled bottom front receivers. GRIN. The round bottom fronts were the way John Garand designed the receiver and Springfield made them that way for the first few years of production. Winchester ALWAYS made their receivers with round bottom fronts. Then around 40 or 41, Springfield began making clipped front receivers and did so for the rest of their production as did HRA and IHC. HOWEVER, ALL GI stocks were made so they would clear the round bottom front receivers thoughout all production so the stocks could be used on ANY Garand receiver.

In the early days of glassing Garands when the glassing material had more give AND when the mold releases were thicker, this was not a concern. HOWEVER, with the advent of less give in modern bedding materials and when you use the extremely thin Valspar 225 mold release, more care must be taken. If you have a clipped front receiver, check to see the FRONT of the receiver just up from the angled surface is a 2 degree angle going back as it goes down the vertical surface on both sides of the receiver. If it is not, we have to do something added. If it is a round bottom front receiver and ESPECIALLY if it is a Winchester receiver, we REALLY need to ensure that front vertical surface is at that 2 degree angle. I’ve seen WRA round front receivers that actually angled FORWARD on that vertical surface OR that surface was so poorly machined that a tight glass job would stick to the receiver or the receiver would scrape the glass as it came in and out of the stock. One some WRA receivers, I have actually filed that surface smooth with a diamond file to get rid of the poor machining.

If that front vertical surface on both sides of the receiver does not have the 2 degree angle, it can keep the receiver from coming out of the stock. When that is the case, what I usually do instead of filing the receiver is to smear a very thin coat of clay on the vertical surface to give clearance in the glass bedding so it can come out of the stock. You don't put clay on the angled surface, if you have the clipped front receiver.

OK, this next is a modification we only do to receivers we glass bed. I’m talking about rounding the bottom corners of the rear of the rear receiver legs. You don’t have to do this on M14 receivers because the receiver legs are so much shorter. However on Garands, if you don’t do this, those bottom corners will shave the surface of the glass bedding off from about 2/3 the way down behind the rear of the rear legs. Unfortunately, I’ve seen even receivers so modified by Marine RTE Armorers where they cut WAY TOO MUCH in this area and actually weakened the receivers. I’ve seen it even worse on receivers that civilians have done and some of them left so little metal that the bottom of the receiver busted off on one or both sides when they went to lock the trigger guard down. So don’t go overboard on this modification.

To do the modification, you first file cut flat up at about a 45 degree angle from the bottom corners. You only need to go in about 1/8” to no more than 3/32” into the metal. Then round the corners so you go up about 3/32” from the bottom of where the original corner had been. I actually Dykem the receiver and mark a line on the Dykem to show how far up to go. You need not go that far forward and just round it a little into the bottoms of the receiver legs. If you want to “get purty,” you could just radius the corners with an 1/8” radius and check to see if that is enough to clear the original surface of the wood when the receiver goes down into the stock.

OK, so BEFORE you glass bed the receiver, you check the vertical surface on the front end of the receiver and modify the bottom rear corners of the rear legs of the receiver.

About “typed out,” so will continue more in the next post later.

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Old December 17th, 2012, 07:59 PM   #7
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Good info! It will make more sense when Phil drops off his rifle! :)

Tony.

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Old December 17th, 2012, 09:06 PM   #8
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Tony,

I am very sorry, but I just realized while I knew what I wanted to describe as to the very small clay wedge you add just ahead of the clip latch, for some reason in my mind, I described it incorrectly originally in post number 3. (I described it as being upside down as to how it really needs to be. SHEESH!!) I just went back and did a MAJOR REWRITE to correct what I had written. Something was bugging me and I pulled out a Garand and slapped myself upside the head for describing it wrong. I have it corrected now in that post.

Thanks from tonyben, budster and rifle21
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Old December 17th, 2012, 09:10 PM   #9
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Well, I'll be sure to capture lots of pics of this one so we are on the same page.

Phil, when you gonna swing by?

Tony.

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Old December 17th, 2012, 10:09 PM   #10
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Oops, Tony I forgot to ask you if you are doing an full NM modification or if you are doing just a glass bedding to tighten up a worn service grade stock? So what does Phil want to do with the Garand after you bed it? Perhaps Phil should get in on the discussion here?

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Old December 17th, 2012, 10:16 PM   #11
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Yeah, I think I'll page him....


PAGING................
MCGRATH................
PHIL......................
MCGRATH................

PLEASE REPORT TO THE M1 GARAND ACCURACY FORUM!

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Old December 17th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyben View Post
Yeah, I think I'll page him....


PAGING................
MCGRATH................
PHIL......................
MCGRATH................

PLEASE REPORT TO THE M1 GARAND ACCURACY FORUM!
Grin. Maybe you need to PM him?

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Old December 17th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #13
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Talking

Sorry for the late reply, I have been reading Gus's bedding posts and flippin back and forth between the old NRA reprint and JK's Shop manual and I just made a quick run up too Portland and back its been a long day.

The rifle is a late 5.42 SA with a new Navy 7.62mm barrel that I picked up here in the BX long before the CMP started selling the .308 Specials and Navy Mk1 mod2 rifles. With that said I don't have to worry about WWII recievers or Winchesters saw tooth machining, I like SA late/post war machining there sharper with cleaner lines.

My plan is to Match it out and use it XTC, the current stock is a burch replacement that has a few stripes nothing to fancy just good wood, the stock fit is solid no side/side or front/rear play but the draw is soft. The rest of the NM tweeks are bolt on's, I have already done the rear handguard, and the front handguard I can handle no problem. The rear legs I can also handle, I own a BIG FILE, just kidding yuk.. yuk...

I could address the soft trigger draw and just bed the T/G and have it looking clean, I could also do the rest of bedding but it would look like I did the rest of the bedding. I like my bedding jobs done clean and I can't do them clean. I've seen Tony's work and its miles ahead of what I could do, knowing that he is getting ready too bed his own rifle I ran the idea about doing a M1 and he agreed, my end is I need to suply the release agent.

The rifles current accuracy is better than what my old NM M1a was/is with the same loads on the short line, the USGI 7.62mm M1 barrel is still thin from the chamber foward and I'm thinking that adding some barrel pressure and trigger draw isn't going to hurt me from 300yds and back.


Last edited by Phil McGrath; December 17th, 2012 at 11:16 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 11:29 PM   #14
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Phil, That was a GREAT help. Now, has the lower band been glued to the barrel or has the barrel been knurled for a tight fit of the lower band? Are the handguards glued? If not, do you want the handguards glued? Since it is a birch stock, I'm going to write how to cut MUCH more wood out of the stock to replace it with much stronger bedding material.

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Old December 17th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #15
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This sort of reminds me of a "trade" I did with a guy in southern California years ago when we traded me glass bedding his Garand into a birch stock for some labor he did for me. When I hogged out the wood in birch stock to fill with Marine Tex, he almost freaked out. After I filled it all in with Marine Tex, he realized how much stronger it would be and came up with the description that I only leave a thin veneer of wood over what almost becomes a fiberglasss stock.

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