Building an Unlimited M1 Garand for XTC

He's good too go, anything under the hood is fair game.

No, its not Garand Game legal. If he has a local rifle club they could let him shoot it but he would be ineligible for any awards other than braging rights. As a NRA Service Rifle anything under the hood is fair game as long as the trigger makes min-weight, he doesn't radically alter the outside of the stocks dimensions, no apiture front sights, and a working safty he is good to go.

You should be fine with 12 twist, try the Berger 168 Hybrids or their 185 Juggernaut for 600 yard loads. Your 110 would be perfect for the 200 yard line, certain days even at 300 the 110 pills will even serve you well. The heavier pills are preferred at 300 rapids when the wind picks up.

Have fun and enjoy the journey high power is.

Good shooting, Ron.

Though I have never seen a Don McCoy rifle with lugs like that, it does not mean Don didn’t do the original modification in his later years like that. It would have been an improvement over his earlier design of threading the bottoms of the front receiver legs. Don McCoy was THE finest Garand Smith who ever lived and even though he passed away not too long ago. I consider all the rest of us as vying for the number Two Spot as Don will ALWAYS have the Number One spot. He really was that great.

Devcon Steel is an excellent bedding material, but since it is not as thick as other bedding materials when it is mixed up, you do have to work with it different than thicker bedding materials since Devcon has a tendency to flow out of the area you put it in. (That’s why I primarily only use it as a skim bedding material.) Devcon, Marine Tex, Steel Bed and modern Bisonite are ALL stronger than laminated wood and will last longer before loosening than laminated wood. Because these materials are so much stronger than even laminated wood, ideally you want to have as much of the bedding material between the receiver and stock and also the trigger mechanism and stock as you can get in there. In the case of this rifle, you also want to get as much Devcon around the two screw escutcheon blocks and screws for the two front bedding blocks you added to the receiver. Wos, this is not going to be easy because you are going to have to build up layers of Devcon and it is going to be much more time consuming than simpler bedding jobs.

OK, before I go further and since you are going to use Devcon because it is so tough, you will HAVE to make the two added forward bedding blocks into a flat bottomed “V” shape (when viewed from the sides) with at least a two degree angle on both the front and back edges of each block. If you don’t, after you bed with Devcon, you won’t get the receiver out of the stock without scraping the bedding at least or even cracking the bedding around those two added front blocks.

I am going to go off on a tangent for a little bit here, but I am sure you will find the information useful. I was the Junior Armorer when four of us Armorers on THE Marine Corps Rifle Team and our Head Machinist added the first five rear lugs to NM M14 Rifles on THE “Big Team.” That meant I was on the ground floor and we learned a LOT about adding rear and front lugs as the years went on. Our first five lugs were actually pretty crude and I’m glad no one will ever see those lugs as they were embarrassing when we learned more about the lugs. We knew there had to be at least a 2 degree angle on the rear of the lugs because blueprint receiver drawings for the rear of the receiver legs for BOTH M1 and M14 stipulate that. We were VERY GLAD we checked the blueprints or we MIGHT have made them 90 degrees to the receiver and thy never would have gone in and out of the stocks that way. Grin.

Now, a 2 degree angle is not much of an angle. I remember us asking our Head Machinist what we would have to do to make sure we had the minimum of a 2 degree angle. His reply was that if you could recognize there was an angle by the naked eye, it would be AT LEAST 2 degrees, if not one to two more degrees than that. OK, that was GOOD news because a machinist’s square could be used on the bottom of the receiver behind the rear lug and if we could see an angle, it was at least 2 degrees. So we filed the rear of the rear lug DEAD FLAT with an angle that was at least 2 degrees by using the machinist square.

However, we did not think about the fact that the FRONT side of the rear lug (as viewed from the side) ALSO had to be a 2 degree angle IF there was bedding material AHEAD of the lug. In other words, the lug had to be shaped like a flat bottomed “V” when viewed from the side, if bedding material is placed ahead of the rear lug in the stock. So, on the first rear lug we glassed into the first rifle, the lug tore out glass and wood of the stock ahead of the rear lug, when we “broke the rifle out of glass” or took the stock off. Yeah, we felt pretty stupid. Most of the front of the rear lug does not contact anything because of the channel in the stock. However, when the rear lug is as wide as the receiver, the front of the lug is going into the stock on the right and left sides of the stock. It was the bedding material on both sides in front of the receiver that tore out. So we had to come up with a way to get around that.

Now, if you have TIME to do an absolute first class job, the best way is to make the rear lug into a flat bottom “V” shape when viewed from the side. Of course, that is more machining and/or filing. However, bedding material in front of the rear lug is only good for counter recoil and does almost nothing or really nothing for the quality of the bedding job. So what we did was squeeze some clay in front of the front of the lug on both sides and cut it close to the front of the rear lug, but with that 2 degree angle. That way, when we “broke the rifle out of glass,” the bedding material was not tight on the front of the lug and the receiver easily came out of the stock. We cleaned the clay off the front of the lug and there was no worry about getting the receiver with the rear lug in and out of the stock. Actually, that was how we bedded even all of the rear lugs on our Double Lug/Double Torque screw rifles we would and did build in the future. We just did not have the time to machine/file the front of all the rear lugs on all the rifles for THE Marine Corps Team rifles and thankfully found it was not necessary anyway. I mention this because if you have never bedded even a rear lug, it is probable you would never think about this. ALSO, the front of the two front bedding blocks you had welded onto the receiver will HAVE to have a 2 degree angle just like the rear of those blocks – and again the shape is a flat bottom “V” when viewed from the side.

Now, what I have not mentioned is the SIDES of the rear lug or the SIDES of the front blocks you added to the receiver and that is important to know as well. The SIDES of the rear lug and the front blocks MUST be either parallel to the sides of the receiver OR have a slight angle that angles inward from the top of the lug or blocks and angling more inward going down the sides of the rear lug or front blocks. They will come out of the bedding material smoothly that way without scraping the bedding material and/or damaging the stock. If the sides of the lug or front blocks angle outwards going down the sides, they WILL scrape off glass or crack/break the stock when you take the stock off after glass bedding. So before you even think about glass bedding, you have work to do to angle the front and backs of both front blocks you welded on. You should also check the sides of the rear lug and sides of both front blocks to make sure they are parallel to the receiver or angling inward going down the sides.

OK, this was a lot of thinking and typing, so I will stop here. I will come back later with suggestions on how to “layer” the Devcon bedding material that you will need to build up in stages in the stock.

Great point and I would not even mess with tuning screws on a Garand.

Jay,

That is absolutely correct, but there is a way around that to make it legal as long as there is "cap bedding" that covers the screw holes. Yeah, it is something I have been thinking about for this one. Grin.

Good point Jay. What I'm getting at is the access hole for the heads of the two front torque screws leave a hole outside the outer edges of the trigger housing plate, then it is an outside modification that probably is going to be rulled illegal for NRA service rifle.

However, come to think of it, I have seen some double lugged M1A's that had the front torque screw come out the bottom of the stock rather than inside the mag well and some NRA refs allowed that. Still, I won't use a front lug and torque screw that doesn't come out of the mag well as I KNOW they will always pass inspection.

slikwilli420 said:

The way the lugs on this rifle will be configured, the front and rear screws will be almost totally covered by the trigger housing, and in order to access the screws, the TG would need to be removed. Essentially, the only visible thing on the bottom will be the outside edges of the lugs that are permanently bedded into the stock. I have seen some setups where the single front lug screw is totally exposed and could be torqued without any disassembly. My primary concern is simply overall weight, since it looks like it will come in around 12-13lbs. The current unlimited Garand rule is 10.5lbs.

Click to expand...

OUCH!! If I remember from my first Guidebook for Marines, the M1 Garand in a plain wood stock will run 9.5 lbs. That only gives you one pound extra to play with. A laminated stock is heavier than a wood stock. The rear lug will add some weight and the blocks and epoxy bedding will add more weight. I'm not sure if you have enough spare weight left to add a Medium Weight NM Barrel and I'm pretty certain you don't have enough for a full heavy barrel.

Just went back and re-read the rulebook and rule 6.4.1 says "The Unlimited M1 Garand must have an external M1 Garand configuration..."

http://www.thecmp.org/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf

It is going to be MUCH more difficult to follow that rule and hide the outer edges of the holes for the two front bedding block screws from peeking outside the outer edges of the trigger housing plate. May I suggest you use the contact information provided below to get an official interpretation on whether or not that will make the rifle illegal? If they say such modification is within the spirit of the rules, that is going to make it MUCH easier to bed the front bedding blocks' escutcheons and screws. ALSO, I would suggest printing off a hard copy if they allow it and put it in your shooting kit in case someone challenges you and the Referee initially rules your rifle is illegal.

Rule Interpretations. To obtain a clarification or interpretation of any CMP rule, contact CMP Competitions, 419-635-2141, ext. 1101/1114 or competitions@thecmp.org, to request a CMP ruling or interpretation.

GOOD questions. You are going to have to bed the stock in different stages and that is actually a good thing. Modern bedding compounds shrink about 1percent in proportion to their volume. That means larger or thicker sections of "glass" shrink more than thinner sections. So as you add layers of glass, they won't shrink as much as if you had bedded it one single time.

As I get to the posts talking about preparing the stock for bedding, the way I recommend gives you some SERIOUS good pillars of glass for the front end of the trigger housing plate to lock up against. Since you will be using a torque screw on the rear lug, you will form a good pillar of glass bedding back there as well. When something has to be done a little differently between the way I describe for that rifle and differently for your rifle, I'll post the differences in this thread for you.

Please don't think I'm slighting you by doing it this way as that is not my intention. While I'm typing all this stuff, it is easier to type the way most M1's have to be NM modified and then type the differences here.

Also, Tonyben has done some GREAT tutorials on this forum and I'm hoping he will be convinced to do a tutorial on the Garand as he works it and add it to this forum. I do not have any way to record videos or even pictures, so that will help many forum members if we can talk Tonyben into doing it. Grin.

slikwilli420 said:

Update.

http://s1026.photobucket.com/user/s...DSCF2921_zps0c8bc733.jpg.html?sort=3&o=20&_suid=1366934594091038434269811751736

Click to expand...

Hate to tell you this, but as I feared and mentioned before, I can see the screw heads sticking out beyond the "plate"of the trigger housing and that's an illegal outside modification even for an NRA M1 Service Rifle. Some folks MIGHT not spot it at local matches and no one usually is going to challenge it for NRA Service Rifle competition, UNTIL YOU WIN SOMETHING!!! THEN your rifle will be DQ'd and you will lose whatever you won.

I've seen a number of times over the years that a competitor got DQ'd at Regional or National Matches and every time they said, "BUT No one ever DQ'd it before or said it wasn't legal." Can't tell you how many times I've seen NRA Referee's explain that didn't mean anything, what counted was the rifle had illegal modifications.

The ONLY hope you have is to write the Director of Civilian Marksmanship c/o the Civilian Marksmanship Program with good pictures like this one and even one with an even closer look where the screw heads show through. The DCM MAY authorize it and if so, then carry THAT letter in your shooting kit to pull out at any Match you are challenged.

Like I said I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I've been around High Power Rifle Competition for almost 40 years now and am really trying to save you a LOT of frustration and disappointment.

Thank you.

I wouldn't count on it. Many things have been tried to get past Inspectors over the years and they always get caught sooner or later. Grin. And that leads to another sea story.

One hugely important thing we found for accuracy with NM Garands was gluing the handguards, though that is NOT legal for John Garand or other "As Issue" matches.

The first year they shot the John Garand Match at the Nationals, my best friend in life Mike Gingher was chosen to inspect the rifles. The way they did it that year was Mike inspected EVERY rifle that won something. Well, he found one rifle that had the handguards glued THOUGH the person who glued the handguards did it with clear epoxy and hid it well enough most people would not have found it. Well, Mike did and DQ'd the rifle, so the shooter lost what he won.

A couple weeks later, Mike got a call from the guy who called to congratulate Mike on figuring it out. HE had glued the handguards and did not believe anyone would notice and it's true many people would not have noticed. Mike was surprised this guy had tried to get away with it. He told Mike that had he known Mike was going to inspect the rifles, he would not have even bothered trying, but he just wanted to see IF it would get caught.