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International Harvester M1

This is a discussion on International Harvester M1 within the M1 Garand Accuracy forums, part of the Rifle Forum category; Hello I recently added to my collection a International Harvester Co. M1 # 4460_ _ _ Stock inside marked 1722 outside none Barrel P LMR ...


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Old July 18th, 2012, 03:25 PM   #1
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International Harvester M1

Hello


I recently added to my collection a International Harvester Co. M1

# 4460_ _ _

Stock inside marked 1722 outside none
Barrel P LMR D6535448 3 53 A9 P M
Op Rod D6535382 IHC
Trigger Group IHC D6528290
Safety IHC
Hammer IHC C-5546008
Bolt D6528287 IHC

The gun appears to have have very little wear. The muzzle shows at a 2.5 roughly.

My only question is the lack of markings on the outside of the stock.










Last edited by kingpin; July 23rd, 2012 at 07:38 PM.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #2
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Beauty!

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Old July 18th, 2012, 04:03 PM   #3
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Thats super Nice!

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Old July 18th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #4
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I now have a really nice IHC Garand that I inherited from my dad, serial range, 45640XX with a nice LMR barrel. When I got the M-1, the barrel was shot out and looked like the inside of a rusty sewer pipe from all those years of corrosive ball ammo.

I haunted the aisles of gun shows for years before I finally found another LMR barrel in the condition I was searching for. I sent the rifle and new barrel down to Fort Benning Ga and had it rebarrelled by a retired Army armourer. My dad's old IHC M-1 is now the center piece of my modest four Garand collection.

7th


Last edited by Seventh Fleet; July 19th, 2012 at 05:12 AM. Reason: typo
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Old July 18th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #5
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You got a nice one. That could be the original stock though it's been sanded.

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Old July 18th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #6
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Nice Garand. I would definitely like to have a correct Harvester in my collection.

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Old July 22nd, 2012, 12:02 PM   #7
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FIRST let me say I’m not an IHC Garand expert !! There has been a LOT of information that has come out in the last 10 to 15 years on IHC Garands that I’m only partially privy to and we are all waiting on one extremely knowledgeable guy to put out a new book on them. I do have a very good friend who is an extremely advanced collector and who volunteers at CMP South and he has learned a LOT from opening parts packages that came straight from IHC, HRA, etc., though.

Most likely the reason there is no proof "P" stamped on the grip and no rectangular DOD "Eagle with Stars" cartouche, is the stock was sanded to make it "look" better sometime in the past. So the stock is not worth quite as much as it would be if the stock still had those stamps. HOWEVER, the numbers inside the stock “Appear” to be authentic. I can’t say they “ARE” authentic without seeing the stock in my hands to validate the style of stamp and the patina of the stamp, but they look good in the photo. When those numbers can be authenticated, they definitely mark that stock as an IHC and ONLY an IHC stock. OK, so what do those numbers mean?

The four digit number inside the stock is a sort of a reverse Military Julian date. A normal Military Julian date for 1 January, 2012 would be “2001.” However on IHC stocks; the first three digits is the number of the day of the year and the last digit is the last number of the year. So your IHC four digit number of "1722" would be the 172nd day of 1952. NOW, 1952 was a Leap year so the actual day it was stamped was 20 June 1952.

By the serial number, your receiver was almost certainly made in 1954 and it would have had an IHC stock with the last of the four digits as a “4.” So it APPEARS this is not the original IHC stock for your rifle, as the stock “IHC Julian Date” is at least one or two years earlier.

IHC “date stamped” stocks have always been HARD to find even back in the 1980’s. MANY collectors and other folks accepted ANY IHC date stamped stock to put on their IHC rifle even AFTER it was figured out what the IHC Date meant in the 1990’s – because finding an IHC date stamped stock is so extremely difficult. The thinking is “even if it is not the correct date, it is better to have any IHC stock on it than no IHC stock.” I speculate this is how your stock got on your rifle.

ALSO, questions come up about letters that are sometimes stamped in front of the four digit IHC "Julian Dates." For example when you see an "OR" stamped before the number - that means the stock was made at the OVERTON stock line on RICHARDSON equipment. There were three stock lines and I don't remember the initials of the other two. Not ALL IHC stocks had letters stamped before the four digits, though, and many do not show letters before the number stamps.

Thanks from willriskit
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 12:23 PM   #8
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Reason I said what I did about the stock with the '52 Julian date is it's been documented in some time blocks that IHC had stocks before they were able to produce complete rifles. Why a 3-53 barrel?

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Old July 22nd, 2012, 12:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd111 View Post
Reason I said what I did about the stock with the '52 Julian date is it's been documented in some time blocks that IHC had stocks before they were able to produce complete rifles. Why a 3-53 barrel?
That's a great question. The ONLY reason I can think of for a barrel date that early on a '54 rifle would be the "bottom of the bin" theory. Barrels were a HECK of a lot easier to make than receivers and IHC often got receivers from Springfield Arsenal throughout their production. I can only guess the barrel was made and stamped before the receiver and they kept laying newer barrels on top of it until they finally went through all the barrels in the bin.

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Old July 22nd, 2012, 05:23 PM   #10
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There is a typo in the listed serial number on the original post. It should read 4460xxx. This puts it earlier than the 4.6 million range of 1954. The stock may therefore be correct with a '52 Julian date.

I have IHC #44430xx which has a Julian stock date of 3052 and an LMR barrel dated 12-52.

I've done some additional research on rifles in my block. The references below were sold through the CMP.

Serial Number: 4440946
Barrel Date: LMR 12 52
Stock Date: Not provided

Serial Number:4441001
Barrel Date: LMR 12 52
Stock Date: OR 3052

Serial Number:4441117
Barrel Date: LMR 12 52
Stock Date: 2332

Serial Number:4441720
Barrel Date: LMR 3 53
Stock Date: OR 2172

Hope this is helpful.
MD

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Old July 22nd, 2012, 05:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1Collector View Post
There is a typo in the listed serial number on the original post. It should read 4460xxx. This puts it earlier than the 4.6 million range of 1954. The stock may therefore be correct with a '52 Julian date.

I have IHC #44430xx which has a Julian stock date of 3052 and an LMR barrel dated 12-52.

I've done some additional research on rifles in my block. The references below were sold through the CMP.

Serial Number: 4440946
Barrel Date: LMR 12 52
Stock Date: Not provided

Serial Number:4441001
Barrel Date: LMR 12 52
Stock Date: OR 3052

Serial Number:4441117
Barrel Date: LMR 12 52
Stock Date: 2332

Serial Number:4441720
Barrel Date: LMR 3 53
Stock Date: OR 2172

Hope this is helpful.
MD
Right on the money!

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Old July 23rd, 2012, 07:48 PM   #12
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Hello Guys

Sorry for the typo.

Some other info I have come across

By 1954, only one IHC stock production line was in operation, and it was the Overton line with the new Richardson equipment.

So, what happened?

I believe the Evansville IHC stock line (HR, IHR) was shut down at the end of 1952, due to major production problems - and also due to the fact that (while stock inventory had built up) the rifle production line had still not received all of its milling machinery, and mass production had not commenced. Hard evidence bears this theory out, because I have never seen an HR and IHR stock with a date later than 1952.

I also think that one of the Overton lines (the one using older equipment, using the “O” code) - was shut down sometime in early 1953, probably in the spring, when the IHC rifle line was shut down for endurance firing problems, or the infamous “11-clock jam.” I believe this stock line shutdown occurred because of the buildup of stock inventory, and corresponding cuts of stock orders to Overton. Since demand declined, Overton cut one of its lines. This is borne out because the latest dated stock with the “O” in the channel I have seen is 793, or approximately March 20, 1953, which corresponds to the IHC shutdown in March 1953.

By 1954, only one line was in operation, and that one was the Overton-Richardson line, originally marked OR. And, since there was only one stock production line in operation by 1954, the letters identifying the stock line were discontinued. Hard evidence bears this fact out, too, as I have never seen an OR, HR, or IHR stock dated 1954 or 1955. Therefore, all stocks made in 1954 and 1955 were all made at Overton, on the Richardson equipment.


Glen

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Old July 24th, 2012, 08:08 AM   #13
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Thanks for the info on 1950s stock markings. Curiosity got the best of me so I got out my unissued CMP H&R collector-grade and found no internal stock markings. Serial is 568XXXX with barrel date of 10-55, shipped from CMP in Jan. 2002. Despite numerous temptations to shoot it, I've kept this one in the condition of its arrival.

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Old July 24th, 2012, 08:49 AM   #14
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OP, what you could try - no guarantees but it's non-destructive - is rub a little water into the wood where you'd look for the cartouche and P (proof), put a blue light on it, something might still show, like an ordnance wheel with crossed cannons.

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Old July 29th, 2012, 12:20 AM   #15
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Very nice!! I also am in search of an IHC for my collection. I have my eye on one, just waiting for the guy to decide to sell........

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