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April 18th, 2010, 09:14 AM
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#1 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Al
Posts: 542
| Hawken Rifle Question
Did the Hawken brothers ever make a .30 caliber rifle?
I know they made .50, .54., and .68 calibers guns.
I was just watching Jerimiah Johnson...EXCELLENT MOVIE....and at the beginning the narrator says he bought his first Hawken, a .30 caliber.
Any info appreciated. 
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April 18th, 2010, 01:24 PM
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#2 | | Lifer
Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,570
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They might have made some built to specs rifles but I've never come across a muzzle loader with that small of a ball in a rifle.
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April 18th, 2010, 04:19 PM
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#3 | | Lifer | Quote:
Originally Posted by straight shooter  Did the Hawken brothers ever make a .30 caliber rifle?
I know they made .50, .54., and .68 calibers guns.
I was just watching Jerimiah Johnson...EXCELLENT MOVIE....and at the beginning the narrator says he bought his first Hawken, a .30 caliber.
Any info appreciated. | Never Say Never......But I really doubt it...
That Quote has been at issue since the Movie came out...
I'm Guessing that it was a Typo in the Original Script...
Likely Was 'sposed to be .50, But Became .30...
A .30 Caliber Muzzleloader is like a .22 !
Yes, Squirrel Guns made in .36, even .32...
But...A .30 ? .30 is essentially 'SHOT'...
To Have a .30 Built would be 'Remarkable'...in the old sense of the word...Something to be 'Remarked' Upon...Something Unusual, Rare...not just a 'throwaway line'...
Just My Opinion...
CAVman in WYoming...a die-hard Black-Powder, Muzzle-loading, Mountain Man Rendezvouser... 
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April 21st, 2010, 05:10 AM
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#4 | | Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Gloucester, VA
Posts: 1
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You should read the book Crow Killer about John Johnson (his real name). Of course it still has some mountain man lore in it, but it is based on the real man and his history. It does talk about his weapons in some but dont recall the speciffics.
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April 22nd, 2010, 09:49 AM
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#5 | | MGySgt USMC (ret)
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Virginia
Posts: 4,558
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Well, there was an original Hawken rifle made in .22 caliber. I saw it displayed in a small museum in Denver in 1971. Even had tiny little .22 caliber round balls and the mold that went with it. The barrel size was normal for a Hawken, which meant that had to have been one HECK of a heavy rifle with such a small bore. The museum did not state who or what it had been made for, but it obviously was a "gallery" rifle.
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April 22nd, 2010, 10:44 AM
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#6 | | Lifer
Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: mountain west
Posts: 3,047
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Interesting. Kind of a mini chunk gun.
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April 22nd, 2010, 03:31 PM
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#7 | | MGySgt USMC (ret)
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Virginia
Posts: 4,558
| Quote:
Originally Posted by 1KPerDay Interesting. Kind of a mini chunk gun. | Indeed. I can't remember if the museum was a city or county museum and it was in an old mansion. My heart lept when I entered the room and there was real Hawken rifle about chest high with the buttplate towards you when you entered. Then when I got around to the other side of the glass case, the hole in the barrel looked like an air rifle.
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April 22nd, 2010, 03:46 PM
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#8 | | Master Gunner
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 964
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Even the .30 and .32 guns are suitalbe for game up to and including dear. Ideal, no, but thwy will work.
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April 23rd, 2010, 01:47 AM
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#9 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Al
Posts: 542
| Thanks Gents!
I appreciate the responses fellas. Mr. Gus...thats very cool about the .22 caliber Hawken, I woulda lost money betting against that!!
Thanks again!
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April 24th, 2010, 10:41 AM
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#10 | | MGySgt USMC (ret)
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Virginia
Posts: 4,558
| Quote:
Originally Posted by straight shooter I appreciate the responses fellas. Mr. Gus...thats very cool about the .22 caliber Hawken, I woulda lost money betting against that!!
Thanks again! | Let me tell you, that rifle is hardly known at all outside the extremely knowledgeable Hawken experts (of which I'm not one of them) and the few of us who happened to trip over that rifle by visiting the museum back then. I don't know if the rifle is still on display and I would have an extremely difficult time trying to figure out which of the many museums it is in. I visited it when I was visiting my Brother and Sister in law in Denver right before I went to Marine Corps Boot Camp and frankly did not make a mental note of the location or name of the museum.
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April 24th, 2010, 09:47 PM
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#11 | | Fire Team Leader
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ohio
Posts: 183
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May have been a .36 or a .38 caliber,,,may also had a "freshened" barrel still referred to as a 30 cal
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April 30th, 2010, 08:39 PM
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#12 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 515
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I will take a chance and say I am probably the only person on this board who has ever owned an original Hawken (2). NO. The original real Hawken rifles, whether they were built in Maryland or St. Louis, were meant to be rifles that could take down the heaviest game, to be the only rifle a man needed, as he could only carry one. Most were approx .50 cal.
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June 2nd, 2010, 06:01 AM
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#13 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Piney Woods of East Texas
Posts: 42
| Kentucky Rifle
I have the Kentucky Rifle in the attached pic, it measures 15.625" from end to end with a bore of .125". I know its not a "Hawkins Rifle" but may be of interest to some of you. I have had the piece for over 20 years. I purchased it from the daughter of a decesed collector with documentation that it was an original rifle built as a "Salesman Sample" to be used as a way to travel on horse back with several types of rifles and take orders for the builder to fill. The minuture rifle is a fully working rifle in every respect and appers to have been fired. If any of you have seen other rifles like this or any information on just who the builder of this rifle might be please share it with me. If this truly is a "Salesman Sample" then there should be some full scale rifles in collections somewhere.
Scout
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June 2nd, 2010, 06:36 AM
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#14 | | Lifer | Quote:
Originally Posted by U S Scout I have the Kentucky Rifle in the attached pic, it measures 15.625" from end to end with a bore of .125". I know its not a "Hawkins Rifle" but may be of interest to some of you. I have had the piece for over 20 years. I purchased it from the daughter of a decesed collector with documentation that it was an original rifle built as a "Salesman Sample" to be used as a way to travel on horse back with several types of rifles and take orders for the builder to fill. The minuture rifle is a fully working rifle in every respect and appers to have been fired. If any of you have seen other rifles like this or any information on just who the builder of this rifle might be please share it with me. If this truly is a "Salesman Sample" then there should be some full scale rifles in collections somewhere.
Scout | Very Nice!
Does It Have ANY 'Name(S) Anywhere on the Barrel ?
CAVman in WYoming...(Rendezvouser, Black Powder, Buckskinning Mountain Man!)
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June 2nd, 2010, 09:02 AM
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#15 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 515
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I have never heard of salesmans samples in miniature and original to the period. That doesn't mean to imply it is not a cool display!
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