M14 Forum

ksporter45 · December 29th, 2009, 05:57 AM

hi all just got an uberti 1874 sharps standard for xmas and was wanting to reload for it ,cant afford or find factory ammo round here,was wanting info,links etc,want to use the remington 405 jsp(their cheap) and imr 3031powder,anybody?

stoky · December 29th, 2009, 07:05 AM

IMR 3031 is the best powder I have tried for the .45-70. I have little experience with jacketed bullets. A local club match that I participate in requires the use of cast bullets. For economical and accurate shooting (and less barrel wear), Magnus or Meister cast bullets work. The variable of the hardness of the bullet adds another variable to the complexity though. I've tried Unique, 2400, IMR4895, IMR4227 and Varget in this cartridge and I find that 3031shoots better than these. Be especially wary of load recipes using pistol powders and fillers or wads.

sumoj275 · December 29th, 2009, 11:17 AM

IMR 4198 and 3031 are good powders. I have loaded the 405 RNFP in 45-70 gov't because the price is right and it does a heck of a job on paper and game.

ksporter45 · December 29th, 2009, 01:58 PM

thanks guys,i have some commercial loads i got for my 1888 trapdoor(405 cast rnfp) and shot them today, WOW love the rifle,but the cast bullets really leaded up after 5 shots,needless to say i will not shoot anymore of them

stoky · January 1st, 2010, 07:13 AM

The right lube (50/50 Alox and beeswax is one), bullet hardness and proper load will minimize leading. I've found leading much easier to remove than copper fouling.

arcticdog · January 6th, 2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksporter45

thanks guys,i have some commercial loads i got for my 1888 trapdoor(405 cast rnfp) and shot them today, WOW love the rifle,but the cast bullets really leaded up after 5 shots,needless to say i will not shoot anymore of them

I'm still new to shooting these old-timers (I have a Trapdoor), so I could be operating on wrong info.

Its my understanding the cast lead bullets shouldn't go much more than 1700-1800 fps and they should have a gas check. Of course, the cast bullets need to have the correct hardness and proper powder load, etc. How was your ammo loaded?

Also, if you have any copper fouling in the barrel, the cast lead immediately fouls it.

Very interested in your experience so I can learn from it. TIA!

stoky · January 9th, 2010, 08:19 AM

IMO:
1700 to 1800 fps is too much for a non gas check bullet in .45-70 and exploring velocity envelope boundaries in a Trapdoor is a bad idea.

A Highwall or Ruger #1 or #3 are much more appropriate for Mach multiplying.
.45-70s are available in .458" and .459" bores. My experience indicates that you can shoot .459" bullets in .458" bores and get fine accuracy, but leading will be terrible. Most commercial cast loads are .459".
For maximizing velocity and just about eliminating leading, gas checks are great. They aren't east to find off the shelf, and rolling your own is a royal PIA. It's probably the way to go if your going to get into casting. I don't.
For more info check out http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ and Cast Bullets by Col E. H. Harrison. I think it is still available from the NRA.

ksporter45 · January 23rd, 2010, 01:07 PM

the ammo in question was loaded by some outfit in ILL,it has a mv about 1100fps,cast lead fp, i pulled one bullet and found no gas check on it,going to pull the rest and use the primed brass for my handloads,i am using the remington bullets because they are cheaper than cast lead,i just cant find any good load info on them,what i did find was in a lyman manual from 1964

Ivan1GFP · April 16th, 2011, 07:29 AM

I cast my own boolits with wheel weights and a Lee 450 grain or a Lyman 500 grain Schmitzer. I can generally run these up to about 1450 fps propelled by IMR 3031 without any leading. Accuracy is excellent (better than I can hold with iron sights). Lube is Lee Alox stick in a Lyman heated Lubrisizer.

I also segregate bullets by weight. The good ones will stay in about a 1.5 grain range high to low.

- Ivan.

mustanggt · January 11th, 2012, 05:27 PM

3F Swiss or KIK will fit the bill and once black is tried you never go back.

Pomeroy · January 11th, 2012, 07:12 PM

I use Meister cast bullets and Trail Boss for light loads in my 1886 and Guide Gun. I use JHP and 4198 for heavier loads.

stoky · January 12th, 2012, 08:58 AM

I had high hopes for Trail Boss, but I haven't had much luck with it in my Pedersoli Sharps. The "cowboy" loads with pistol powders have also been under achievers. I've had the best luck with fast rifle powders, including 3031. Mine shoots the 405gr Meister's okay, but it likes 500gr Montana Precision better.

Seventh Fleet · January 12th, 2012, 09:52 AM

You are one lucky guy getting a cool rifle like that for Christmas. Since it is such a historic firearm why not try some of your home cast bullets loaded in front of good old fashioned 3FG black powder????

I agree that 3031 and 4895 is choice stuff when it comes to that modern smokeless stuff. However I honestly don't think that new fangled smokeless powder is ever gonna catch on with the American sportsmen and certainly not with the military....

7th ;)

mustanggt · January 12th, 2012, 10:13 AM

The way to get any consistency out of original black powder chamberings black powder is the way to go. 45/70 is pretty forgiving but using black will ensure low SD and ES. So increased accuracy will be the result. I shot smokeless in my C. Sharps rifles at first and accuracy was mediocre at best. When I learned about how to load with black did things come together. If you are shooting cases with volumes larger than 45/70, such as 50/90 it could be very dicey using smokeless. As soon as I started using black I got hooked and haven't looked back. Its extremely fun. Shiloh forum is a great place to start your journey if you choose to go the black powder route.

Ivan1GFP · January 12th, 2012, 03:57 PM

I have never reloaded Black Powder in a .45-70. I used a awful lot of it in a BP .54 Caliber Sharps. I started with FFg and went to FFFg because it burned a lot cleaner. The problem I noticed after a few hundred rounds was that the gas seal on the breech block was getting eroded in a serious way. It seems to be the nature of Black Powder to be erosive because there is so much solid material left after combustion. (At least that is what I was told.) The clean up is also a pain.

Regarding IMR 3031 versus IMR 4198, the IMR 4198 is VERY position sensitive. If you tip the muzzle up before each shot versus down before each shot, the average velocity difference in the 1300 fps range is around 150-200 fps.

If you want to shoot powerful loads in these guns, go with a heavier bullet. I have been using Lee 450 grain round nose, Lyman Schmitzer 500 grain, and Lyman Postell 535 grain bullets. All shoot better than I can hold with iron sights but if I had to go with just one, the Lee 450 is cheap and works well. I have also had the best accuracy (about 1.5 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards) with that bullet though I believe it may be because I spent more time experimenting with that (my first in this caliber) mould than with the others.
Bullets I cast were from just plain wheel weights lubricated with Alox from either Lyman or Lee in a Lyman heated Lubrisizer.

- Ivan.