This is a discussion on '94 for long range? within the Lever Action forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Has anybody here stretched a Winchester .30-30 out past 200yds? Results? I'm half a mind to try it sometime with 2200fps 150gr JSP handloads when ...
Has anybody here stretched a Winchester .30-30 out past 200yds? Results? I'm half a mind to try it sometime with 2200fps 150gr JSP handloads when I can get a click adjustable Lyman aperture sight. I think it'll be a #66.
If you are intending to use your 94 for taking game @ 200 yards you are most likely at the intended range limits for that round. I shoot a Browning 1885 single shot rifle in monthly silhoutte matches using a 165 grain cast bullet. I have no problem with the chickens at 50 meters, the pigs at 100 meters, the turkeys at 150 meters but at 200 meters (218 yards) the 30-30 will not always knock down a ram. Sure, you can shoot the 30-30 way past 200 yards but the energy it will have left at that range will be less than desireable for taking game. As far as accuracy is concerned the 94 is not known for one hole groups especially @ 200 plus. It is a good round and has taken most everything that walks in North America if the range is right and the shot placed well. But, in the real world, so has the .22 long rifle. These are nice rifles and a capable round if used at the ranges they were intended for. Good luck and have a great Christmas!!
Good point about how power falls off at distance and I kinda guessed that about the 165gr cast bullets as I've shot them at 100yds and they don't really have that much umph in Ultramax's loading. Mainly, they're a steel ringer and I was shooting them at about a 4" swinger. Beyond 200yds, I wasn't figuring on shooting deer with it- just figured to see how accurate it still is, but then I figured it'd have to be a hunting load to be hot enough to carry that far without having so much drop as the 165gr cast will.
I don't know if any lever action would ever be called a long range weapon. While there are some calibers that shoot farther than others. most have been designed for close up work, what we call "Brush Guns'.
I'd say these calibers work well in a lever action under 150 yrd's
357 mag, 44 Speical, 30-30 Win, 35 rem, 444 Marlin, 45 Colt, 44-40
For effective lever action ranges under 400 yrds.
45-70, 450 Marlin, 405 Win
I don't have all the marbles on this, Some of these calibers have dropped
game at longer ranges I know, but consistent effectiveness is another matter as is shot placement.
most have been designed for close up work, what we call "Brush Guns'.
I grew up with that theory. That's the hunting situation I deal with mostly. :) Not trying to create a big arguement out of all this, but I also recall reading what Larry Weisshun (sp?) wrote in Shooting Times- he said he grew up hunting the breaks of the Canadian River in Texas and he stretched his .30-30 out to 175yds on deer. But, he's also named off some of his more recent favorites- .300WinMag, .260Rem., .30-06, in different platforms IIRC.
Seems to me one of the limitations was covered in another thread, something about bolt guns chambered for .30-30 allowing the round to be handloaded hotter than a levergun will take safely.
I don't know if any lever action would ever be called a long range weapon.
No, if I want to do some serious long range work, not that I've had a chance to actually do any, I think I'd get out my M1. :)
You are not thinking wrong with your reloaded ammo as far as more energy down range. Now this is energy in foot pounds at the muzzle with reloads - 125 grain Sierra FP loaded to max. 2626fps and 1913 foot pounds of energy - 150 grain Hornady RN loaded to max. 2335fps and 1815 foot pounds of energy - 170 grain Hornady FN loaded to max. 2170fps and 1777 foot pounds of energy. That will get the job done out past 200, if you use a pointed bullet add some more velocity and energy and of course you will have to load your model 94 one round at a time with anything pointed. I would not go past max. load listing because the cartidge case itself has strength limitations in lever or bolt guns. Yes, the Canadian River Breaks in Texas. I can be there in 10 minutes. Beautiful place with lots of game. Places to hunt there are few and far between these days. You either have to own the land or pay, pay, pay for a place to hunt. Although there are still a few landowners that will let you hunt on their property it has changed over the years and is becoming a rich mans game. I can still look though and I do that everyday. Take care-
1.depends on barrel length on the 94,
2.you can load plastic tip spire points as the first bullet in the chamber,but never with others in the magazine. this might get you extended range,but not a follow up
checkout the leverloution ammunition line. it enables the .30-30 to fire spitzer projectiles, thus increasing its effective range. ive seen a guy put 5 rounds into .75 with that ammo from a bench from his winchester lever gun. impressive. Im sure downrange energy is much better as well.
For compairison, the Soviet 7.62x39 has around the same muzzle velocity and energy as the .30-30. you should see what these M43 FMJs knock around steel at 300+
Well I didn't read "hunting" in your question; I read "shooting". And yes I've shot my M94 Carbine and My M94AE with 24" barrel to 500 yards. I've a #66 on both and they do quite well. The M94AE gets 2440 fps with factory Leverevolution loads and with my reloads using the same powder and bullets. I also push 150 gr PPs to 2524 fps with Leverevolution Powder. Pressures are less than most factory loads (tested with a M43 Oehler with gauge on the M94 AE). I get 2405 fps with the same load out of the M94 Carbine. Yes you can equal those velocities with other powders like 748 and H335 but you will be over the SAAMI MAP of 42,000 psi(Peizo) for the 30-30 in doing so.
So, with such loads and the M94s, I have "killed" many a rock out to 500+ yards with both rifles. For hunting the 160 Hornady FTX bullet at 2400+ fps out of the 24" barrel does make the 30-30 into a vilable 300 yard cartridge considering accuracy, retained energy and trajectory (200 yard zero) for deer, antelope and coyotes. At 2240 fps out of the 20" M94 carbine the same load makes the 30-30 effective out to 250 yards on the same critters.
Most who tout the "brush gun" concept just use the issue sights, issue triggers, no "tuning" and probably don't really care to develope the most from the M94 30-30. With good loads and a receiver or scope sight a M94 will often shoot right along side many an "out of the box" factory bolt action rifle with hunting accuracy of 2 moa or les and most often better.
Both of my M94s will shoot 1.5 moa for a mag full of cartridges so I say "phooey" to the M94 in 30-30 being just a "brush gun". That is especially considering that 90+ percent of all big game are shot on the short side of 200 yards with most of that on the short side of 100 yards. I lived and hunted in the "wide open high desert" country of eastern Oregon for many years and every deer I shot, save two, could have just as easily have been shot with my M94s as with the bolt action scoped rifles I used. Actually I did shoot numerous deer with the M94s there.
As for just fun shooting at long range with your M94? If you can do it safely then I say have at it and enjoy!
I used to single-load 147 grain FMJBT bullets in an old M94; it was fun shooting at steel plates. I think it would be more fun with a bullet like either the Sierra or Nosler 155 BTHP bullets, that are held to tighter tolerances than FMJs. I wouldn't deliberately hunt with something like that anyway - too many other tools in the box.
I've got an old Winchester M64 Deluxe (basically the '94 with a pistol grip stock and 24" barrel) that I haven't gotten around to shooting yet. This sounds like a good use for that gun.
I've shot watermelon-sized rocks to a range-finder measured 330 yards with a Winchester Model 94 Carbine in .32 Special and it gives the impression of being more flat-shooting than it is reputed to be.
I've shot several deer with both the .30-30 and the .32 Special. Longest shot with the .3-30 was 120 yards (steps). Longest with the .32 Special was 90 yards (steps).
I onced used my wife's model 94 Pack Rifle ( 18" barrel with half length mag made for a few years) to take a nice whitetail doe at 225 yards. It was out in my in laws alfalfa field and I couldn't get any closer over the open terrain so I rested it on top a fence post held over and it dropped where it was. Having said that I think I was really stretching it for a .30-30 and would have gotten closer if I could have but the 170 gr. Corelok did it's job.
always an appropriate bullet for the .30-30, my favorite bullet weight to shoot in .30-30 and the Core Lokt bullets have worked for me on deer in several different cartridges in which they've been used.