M14 Forum


H&R trapdoor springfield 45-70

This is a discussion on H&R trapdoor springfield 45-70 within the Lever Action forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Hi Guys: I just acquired this rifle, hardly used looks brand new. It was made ,I think. in the 70s or 80s when H&R reproduced ...


Go Back   M14 Forum > Gun Forum > Lever Action


Like Tree8Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Moderator Tools Display Modes

Old March 27th, 2013, 07:44 AM   #1
Rifleman
 
menoceros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: lafayette,la
Posts: 43
H&R trapdoor springfield 45-70

Hi Guys:

I just acquired this rifle, hardly used looks brand new. It was made ,I think.
in the 70s or 80s when H&R reproduced a series of these rifles in various trim levels.

My question is, since this is a modern reproduction, what ammo should I use and what should I avoid. I know I'd have to be very cautious with an original trapdoor.

Looking in the reloading manuals, they have seperate listings for the loadings for the trapdoor, lever action, and modern bolt action rifles. But none of the ammo makers specify what their ammo is for.

Can I use commercial ammo in this rifle and if so, which ones?

menoceros is offline  
Remove Ads
Old March 27th, 2013, 07:56 AM   #2
Automatic Rifleman
 
larryp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Big Arm Montana
Posts: 125
Yes you can use factory ammo as most of it is loaded to "trapdoor" levels. Stay away from the garret and buffalo bore ammo as that stuff is for the modern single shots and lever guns. If you stick to the "cowboy" loads or the 405 gr soft points from remington and winchester you'll be fine.

Thanks from wetdog1911
larryp is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 07:59 AM   #3
Platoon Sergeant
 
speerchucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: across da lake
Posts: 306
All modern 45-70 ammo should be safe to shoot. Most is loaded to trapdoor levels , except some specialty manufacturers like Buffalo Bore, and Cor-Bon.

The major ammo makers know there are a lot of shooters useing older guns and load down for liability reasons. It is printed on the boxes if they think it is unsafe to fire in a particular firearm.

speerchucker is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 08:05 AM   #4
Old Salt
 
24kshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Western States
Posts: 1,030
Nice rifle - has some recoil to it so hold it tight. I would not advise shooting it off a bench until you get used to it. Factory ammo will work - reloading to enjoyable levels of shooting will work also.

24kshooter is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 09:55 AM   #5
Master Gunner
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 912
the 300 grain Remington load is very accurate (and a bit less recoil) than some other factory loads.

MOST of the "cowboy" labled ammo (Ultra-Max and Black Hills for sure) are both anemic and not very accurate with the usual 405 grain lead bullet.

AKA Hugh Uno is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 09:58 AM   #6
Rifleman
 
menoceros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: lafayette,la
Posts: 43
Thanks guys. I had purchased some Winchester with 300gr JHP and wanted to be sure I wouldn't harm the rifle. I don't really plan to shoot it that often, It was another of those "I've always wanted one on those" type purchases.

menoceros is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #7
Dodgin' The Reaper
 
1KPerDay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: mountain west
Posts: 5,117
Cool... got any pics?

Thanks from MemphisMachinists
1KPerDay is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #8
Old Salt
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,184
Originally, the .45/70 was designated for rifles; the carbine cartridge was a .45/55. When H&R came out with these replicas they were initially very popular but owners found that shooting the .45/70 rifle cartridge in them with either a 300 grain or 405 was a bit harsh. It should be fine with a .45/55 carbine load or its smokeless equivalent.

Horst Apies is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 04:57 PM   #9
Old Salt
 
m14nm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bradford Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,367
Stay with trap door level loads and you'll be safe. I just picked up a box of Remington 405g. s.p.'s and on the flap it says four use in all rifles. I'm trying to find a 1895 Cowboy in 45-70, their like hen's teeth. Just bought a Buffalo Classic in 45-70, and it's a lot of fun to plink with. And if you cast your own bullets, it's pretty cheep to shoot.

m14nm is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 05:15 PM   #10
Grunt
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Franklin, New Hampshire
Posts: 83
I proofed most of the H&R barrels while working there in 70 & 71. The project was called The 073 and they were lots of fun to shoot where I worked on the indoor 100 yd range. The proof round generated about 60% more pressue than the govt 45-70.
Never had a chance to buy one because I wanted a contender. Warren Center was still consulting at the time. He and our group would shoot z scoped .308 while standing in the range door for coffee. Yup, we had to pay for coffee back then.

Hogman07 is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #11
Platoon Sergeant
 
speerchucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: across da lake
Posts: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by m14nm View Post
Stay with trap door level loads and you'll be safe. I just picked up a box of Remington 405g. s.p.'s and on the flap it says four use in all rifles. I'm trying to find a 1895 Cowboy in 45-70, their like hen's teeth. Just bought a Buffalo Classic in 45-70, and it's a lot of fun to plink with. And if you cast your own bullets, it's pretty cheep to shoot.


m14nm.. You need check a different chicken coop. I've been looking for one too..!!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=334007755

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=334010777

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=334028217

Thanks from wetdog1911 and m14nm
speerchucker is offline  
Old March 27th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #12
Old Salt
 
m14nm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bradford Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,367
Ooooohhhhhhhhh!!!

Thanks for the links speerchucker. Monday I sent funds to Fla. for 3 molds,brass and some gas checks. Kind'a getting itchy. I'm gona' have to jump on one of those 1895-CB's.

m14nm is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 03:11 AM   #13
Master Gunner
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 912
Strangely enough, there seem to be more of the Officer's Model Trapdoor H&R's around than the standard (full length) military rifle copies.

I have owned (and shot) around a dozen of the (various) original TD's over the years. As long as you keep pressures under 25K-30K psi (which is very easy to do), they are safe to shoot. Likewise, the (constantly) repeated advice about not shooting jacketed bullets or they will "wear out your bore" is complete BS (unless 10-15 THOUSANDS of jacketed rounds = a "quick" wear out).



Here is one of mine (with a nicely done) 'fake' Krag Carbine):

AKA Hugh Uno is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 05:44 AM   #14
Old Salt
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,184
The original sights on the 1873 trapdoor series were marked with either a "C" or an "R" to distinguish the trajectories of both the carbine and rifle loads, as were the bullets. The powder load for the carbines during their entire production run was 55 grains of black powder and the rifle loads were 70 grains, with the long range rifle cartridge being issued with a 500 grain cast bullet. The heavier bullets were commonly shot at ranges of up to 1,000 yards. Any of the trapdoor collectors books I've read explain the difference between rifle and carbine cartridges. Unless recoil in eccess of what was intended in the original design of the carbine is desirable, the carbine load is much more pleasant to shoot and conforms to the carbine sight.

I have owned and fired many dozens of original trapdoor rifles and carbines, both common and rare, since they were $15 items and still shoot an 1879 model rifle. Original carbines have about doubled in value during the past ten years but serviceable rifles in collectible condition are still available at <$1,000. The reason rifles are still comparatively low priced is that about 500,000 were produced and probably half million still exist.

Horst Apies is offline  
Old March 28th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #15
Lifer
 
Seventh Fleet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dixie
Posts: 4,177
I have two of the H&R Trapdoor 45-70' carbines as well as a really nice original trapdoor rifle. If I were you I'd treat my H&R's just as if they were originals since the weak point in the originals were the trapdoor action. The modern repro carbines are certainly constructed of modern steel and should be better than the steel used in the originals but the weak link is still the trapdoor action. If you want to hot up 45-70 loads then get a Ruger No 3 or a No 1 and then you can approach .458 win mag ballistics.

7th

Thanks from Chuckles
Seventh Fleet is offline  
Reply

  M14 Forum > Gun Forum > Lever Action



Search tags for this page
.45/55 trapdoor gun
,
h & r trapdoor
,
h r trapdoor carbine
,

h&r 1873 trapdoor

,
h&r 4570 trap door rifel
,

h&r trapdoor

,
h&r trapdoor 45-70
,
maximum range of springfield trapdoor carbine
,

modern trapdoor rifle

,
trapdoor carbine for sale
,
trapdoor springfield reproduction
,
value of h&r .45/70 carbine?
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Moderator Tools
Display Modes


Similar M14 Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
H&R, TRW Trigger Groups, H&R Op rod mattnj SPF 2 October 4th, 2011 09:25 AM
Service Grade H&R M1 m1a_scoutguy Steel and Wood 6 August 25th, 2005 09:20 PM
H&R Bolt Question? bigblock The M14 8 April 15th, 2005 06:11 PM
USGI parts and my new H&R Trigger Goup bigblock The M14 4 February 27th, 2005 08:51 PM
How bout H&R Bullet175 The M14 8 July 31st, 2003 07:46 PM



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List