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H&R trapdoor springfield 45-70

42K views 57 replies 32 participants last post by  13Echo 
#1 ·
Hi Guys:

I just acquired this rifle, hardly used looks brand new. It was made ,I think.
in the 70s or 80s when H&R reproduced a series of these rifles in various trim levels.

My question is, since this is a modern reproduction, what ammo should I use and what should I avoid. I know I'd have to be very cautious with an original trapdoor.

Looking in the reloading manuals, they have seperate listings for the loadings for the trapdoor, lever action, and modern bolt action rifles. But none of the ammo makers specify what their ammo is for.

Can I use commercial ammo in this rifle and if so, which ones?
 
#38 ·
Perhaps we need a social skills forum for Hugh Uno. There are other forums where high school lunchroom type rants are the norm and that's taking a wide leap by accepting the information being related as factual. It's always best to acquire a knowledge base on any subject before stating your beliefs.
 
#39 ·
Perhaps we need a social skills forum for Hugh Uno. There are other forums where high school lunchroom type rants are the norm and that's taking a wide leap by accepting the information being related as factual. It's always best to acquire a knowledge base on any subject before stating your beliefs.
No. WRONG is WRONG. There isn't much more to it than this. Not sure why you seem to wish to compound the error by implying that what I posted about the Trapdoor isn't correct and/or that I don't know much about them. I don't typically post "beliefs" (and try my best to distinguish FACTS from opinion). BTW, I have owned and shot a BUNCH of TD's over 30 years or so. Why don't you (simply) go marshal your facts and data to PROVE your point (and thus that I lack an adequate "knowledge base"--I won't hold my breath waiting).
 
#40 ·
The original Trapdoor action is actually a lot stronger than it gets credit for. The block is massive and supported by a half tube of steel and fully encloses the head of the cartridge. Made out of modern, properly heat treated, steel it will take a lot of abuse. It is, however, an ancient design and it does perform at its best with blackpowder or blackpowder level loads. A 500 gr bullet at 1200 fps or a 405 at 1300 fps is a deadly projectile. It is not a rifle to hotrod.

Compared to the rolling block, which has a better rep for strength, it comes off pretty good. The Springfield handles gas much better, has a better supported block, has an ejector (not just an extractor) and will cam a stubborn case into and out of the breech. For a battle rifle born of lack of funds and necessity it is really an excellent design and Springfield did a beautiful job of building them.

On your H&R there is one weak point. The thumb piece is connected to the locking cam by a set screw. If that is loose the cam might not fully engage and the block can come open on firing. Doesn't happen with an original.

Jerry Liles
 
#42 ·
Coincidentally, met a guy at local range two weeks ago who had

just acquired an 1880's trapdoor. He had it checked by gunsmith,

and was firing for first time. We all stood back a good 10 feet or so.

Rifle still works great, looks great, and serves as a great history tool

to the youngsters at the range. Owner plans to load soft loads for

it, no sense in hurting a fabulous piece of history.
 
#45 ·
you seem to have a pretty severe comprehension problem. please go BACK and RE-READ my posting (carefully).

but, just to connect the dots for you.

1. MOST commercial ammo is fine in TD's.
2. ALL of it that says (something) like "safe to shoot in all rifles," is SAFE.
3. NON-STANDARD/MAGNUM/HI-VELOCITY/GRIZZLY BEAR etc. type ammo is MARKED as such and is clearly NOT safe.

got it??
 
#47 ·
Fusion Ammo

Hi everyone,
Been shooting my H&R Trapdoor with factory lead bullets with no issues. Recently I bought 300 gr ,jacketed Fusion rounds. No pressure nos. but muzzle velocity is 1850 fps. Any opinions on whether this ammo is safe to shoot? Appreciate any help. Thanks.
 
#48 ·
H&R trapdoor warning

There is a warning that was issued on the H&R trapdoor rifles.

If you compare the mounting for the hammer with the original trapdoor you will see that the stud for the hammer mounting on the original had two flats on it and the hammer fit on to the flats to hold it secure and then the screw was inserted.

The H&R does not have these flat sides on the hammer mount. The mount is
completely round.

After some use the hammer can work it's way loose and in some instances has caused the breech to open on firing.

It was recommended to have the hammer pinned on to the hammer mount
to give it a more secure situation.
Any gunsmith can drill a small hole where the hammer hole meets the mount and insert a pin. Not a big deal but well worth it for safety.
 
#50 ·
There is a warning that was issued on the H&R trapdoor rifles.

If you compare the mounting for the hammer with the original trapdoor you will see that the stud for the hammer mounting on the original had two flats on it and the hammer fit on to the flats to hold it secure and then the screw was inserted.

The H&R does not have these flat sides on the hammer mount. The mount is
completely round.

After some use the hammer can work it's way loose and in some instances has caused the breech to open on firing.

It was recommended to have the hammer pinned on to the hammer mount
to give it a more secure situation.
Any gunsmith can drill a small hole where the hammer hole meets the mount and insert a pin. Not a big deal but well worth it for safety.
_______________________________________________________________


Yes, your right, my mistake.

It's been a long time since I read that.

Better safe than sorry.

One Note, I have a really good AR15 that I am looking to trade for an H&R trapdoor in case anyone is interested.
 
#49 ·
It was not the hammer that was the problem with the H&R rifles but the thumb piece. The camlatch had a round shaft with dimple for a set screw to hold the thumb piece in the proper orientation. On the originals the thumb piece was permanently attached. If the H&R thumbpiece setscrew comes loose the camlatch may not properly engage and allow the block to spring open on firing. The rifle usually just ejects the fired case and scares the hell out of the shooter without doing other damage.

Incidently the Trapdoor is a heck of a lot stronger than it is given credit for. Springfield used it to develop the .30-40 Krag case and load and barrel with some rifles firing many hundreds of shots of full power loads without failure. The H&R with modern steel is really quite stout. Note the massive breech block and substantila metal in the walls of the receiver. None the less I would stick to Trapdoor level loads in the Officer's Model especially as the recoil can be punishing. A 405 or 500 gr bullet at 1100 to 1300 fps is still a very potent load.

Jerry Liles
 
#51 ·
Maximum (notional) pressure for the trapdoor (1873) is 29,000 psi (some say a bit higher than this). There are thousands (and thousands) of "safe" loads for the TD rifle with 300 grain bullets in the 1600 to 1700 fps range that are still at or even well under 20K psi. For example, 48 grains of 4895 gets you 1600 fps at a very modest 17,000psi. So plenty of safety margin. Unless the Fusion box EXPRESSLY states "only for lever action Marlin, etc.) the ammo companies are already dead certain people will load and shoot almost anything in TD rifles.
 
#52 ·
The outside of the ammo box states, and I quote--
"To avoid serious injury: (1) use only ammunition in good condition; use only in modern firearms in good condition marked and chambered for use of this cartridge."
In addition the box says muzzle velocity in fps is 1850. It also gives energy in ft-lbs at certain distances but there is no mention of pressure.
I only shoot the rifle when my Custer obsession peaks and that is a cyclical thing. It's not like this is a firearm of constant use.
I will check the cam latch and the hammer. The gun has handled all other ammo without a whimper and it is as solid as a rock.
I intend to put the fusion stuff to use. The information here from everyone has been invaluable. Thanks to all and Merry X-mas!
Charles
 
#55 ·
Had an H&R Officers Model some years ago and very nice rifle, but took it to a gun show and a fellow there wanted it a lot more than I did. Shot couple hundred rounds through it and used factory Rem. ammo and as mentioned the factory ammo is still loaded as a safe load. The Ruger No.3 mentioned and I changed out the barrel and extractor to the 45/70 and yes indeed you can load it till you can not hang on to it. Learning curve very steep and now shoot the trapdoor loads in it and works just fine recoil wise and accurate to boot.
 
#56 ·
I also have an H&R Trapdoor Carbine. It is a beautiful rifle. It will however print about 6" high at say 50 yds or so. I read an article on this somewhere & it stated that Brownell's sells a taller front sight for this rifle. And one of my buds has one also, and know this- with his HOT hand loads his rifle WILL un breach it's self when firing!USN3
 
#57 ·
"I just acquired this rifle, hardly used looks brand new. It was made ,I think.
in the 70s or 80s when H&R reproduced a series of these rifles in various trim levels."

Maybe the wrong thread but I'll throw it out anyway. I also just inherited I think the same thing. I'm told and it looks as well to be UN-fired. Perfect except for storage wear. It was just a wall hanger. I'm wondering about the different models, I'm also told it is one of 1000 and does have a 7xx number on it.
What do I have, and should I leave it un fired or as I would like chase some deer with it?
Thanks, Terry
 
#58 ·
A Trapdoor in good condition is a safe rifle to fire with the proper loads. The H&R reproduction is a very safe rifle if attention is paid to the potential thumb latch problem. It is well worth shooting and a real hoot, especially with black powder loads.

Jerry Liles
 
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