M14 Forum

jbrooks · November 10th, 2011, 08:17 PM

Just saw the final episode... brought back a lot of memories, the sound of the Huey's, etc. Most moving to me was the release of the POWs. Many if not most of those poor guys had failed marriages after that. In the '80s I served with a number of former POWs when I was stationed at the Pentagon. My boss, Col. Tom Browning, was an exceptional leader and went on to retire as a Brig. Gen. He was a POW at the Hanoi Hilton from July 8, 1966 to February 12, 1973. I just found this site:

http://militarytimes.com/citations-m...ipientid=24147

Indeed, every generation has it's heros. and Tom is certainly one of them. BTW, his Dad a nav-bombardier in B17, was a POW in Germany for 19 months... (http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/b/b100.htm)

Viet Nam was a lie from the beginning, but I too was once a young hawk full of piss and vinigar, but the years have certainly mellowed me.

The scenes of the NVA overtaking the Presidential Palace in Saigon have been repeated hundreds of times since then, most recently in Libya...

Funny how Nixon claimed we would "leave with honor" and that peace would prevail...

Fast forward to the present... as we pull out of Iraq and later Afghanistan, the loss of US blood will largely have been in vain.

War is hell, and the people who send our troops into meaningless wars should rot there.

JWB

USAF, 1968 - 1990

Oxmix · November 10th, 2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegularGolf

Was it a BFA (blank firing adapter)? I caught the E2 but didn't pause the TV to really check it out.

In case some of you didn't know, but one of the interviewees from Part 2, Artie Wiknik, wrote an outstanding book from the war titled, "Nam Sense". His portion on becoming a "shake-n-bake" NCO and how he was treated in country were something else (I had never heard of an NCO Candidate School before this).

We had an influx of instant NCO's, Spec 5's, come into our unit in late 1968. It halted promotions. E-3's couldn't make E-4 and E-4's couldn't make E-5 because all the E-5 slots were filled.

Regards

Ox

Whatsinaname181 · November 10th, 2011, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammonje

My dad was like this. Doesn't even talk about his experiences in Vietnam. Often he fibs to avoid talking about it to others. He had PTSD like a motha when he got back and was a monster for about a decade or more. I remember as a kid he would be screaming in the living room in the middle of the night.....I've got Mr. Charlie in the effin' wire, I need illumination rounds god damn it. Followed by some sort of call signs that I guess were prearranged fire sectors. I would go in there to see what was up and he would just look right through me. Or he would go running down the hall screaming after someone that wasn't there. Some sort of neuropathology. Guilt will eat your soul. He told me very few details. Mostly his state side training as an Air Traffic Controller at Keesler AFB prior to his transfer to the US Army and the 101st AB. He killed a shit ton of folks while coordinating air strikes and doesn't really want to remember it. I said you saved a lot of American lives. He said....doesn't matter now whether they were American or not. Some sort of conflict with his faith. That's exactly what sorted it out as well. A pastor helped him find peace and it vanished one day. At least that is my guess....he's my pops and is a gentle giant now. I know him well enough to leave it alone. Kills me now thinking of the pain he went through. A better welcome from home would have made it easier for him to heal. I often go to Hartsfield Airport to greet soldiers returning home and give them a firm handshake and a welcome home. I can tell they really appreciate it from the look in their eyes. Elation at being back home in the US of A. Folks should be more appreciative of our men and women in uniform.

Someday I hope he opens up.

My grandfather did recently about WWII. Only when he was about 85 years old or so. Before it was just like my dad...only stories about stateside training with the 4th ID. His stories were the bomb. D-day to VE Day with the 4th ID/22nd IR. D-day, Cherbourg, St. Lo/Operation Cobra, Paris, Nancy and Metz, Heurtegen Forest, Battle of the Bulge, Rhine, Germany, all of it. One of his recurring avid nightmares comes from a situation in Normandy. They were receiving mortar fire and he dived into a vacant foxhole in a hedgerow berm. Inside was a dead German with his eyes fixed on him. Granddad said he exited the foxhole immediately in the midst of a mortar attack. Didn't give a crap....spooked him that bad. Fell out of bed and broke his collar bone recently having this nightmare. He made it all the way though. Thank god and what a kick ass grandpa. He's an old softy and a helluva guy. CSM Ed Bono.

There is certainly a consciousness/conflict about your own mortality and the taking of others lives, even when justified. Both have difficulties making peace with the killing of others. War sucks and folks need to realize it. There are no unwounded soldiers from conflict, no victors really....only victims. Our men and women in uniform have sacrificed so that people like me never have to experience those horrors. God bless them.

I want to personally seek out any and every airport hippie protestor that ever EVER said anything bad to a nam vet... and beat the effing' brakes off them.

My uncle was a corpsman in vietnam. he served with an infantry rifle squad. he was shot in the head. he still walks funny. he, and you all did not deserve that whatsoever.

I remember getting off the plane on my way back from iraq, and people were clapping and nice. It felt good. i can only imgaine as i sit here and type, how shitty they made you feel. i would probably be a more of a mess right now that i am already if i had to endure what you guys did on the way home. Welcome back guys.

82nd ABN · November 10th, 2011, 08:46 PM

I know from past shows, reading and talking to many VN vets that some of your homecomings were not pleasant as depicted in the series. Just wanted to say I am sorry you had to endure not only the war but the disappointing homecomings. Regardless of the political atmosphere at the time the people were wrong, dead wrong and had no right to do what they did. My father was one of the chosen frozen marines, he never spoke much about the korean war but he never held back about R&R and time he spent in Okinawa. I often wonder if I have any sisters or brothers over in Asia but thats another story all together. One thing he did tell me that was similar to what you experienced was while riding a motor scooter in Japan, many of the Japanese would spit on him as he rode by. He said it had a lot to do with us dropping an atom bomb on them. He took it in stride and trucked on. I have said it before he and my uncle Chuck(VN Vet) were the only thing keeping me from going down the wrong road when I was in my late teens. I put them through hell but they never gave up on me.

Thanks to all you VN Vets and all vets for that matter. Enjoy you Veterans Day. I hope you can all find something enjoyable to do.

Hand Salute!

andyh1956 · November 10th, 2011, 08:55 PM

did anyone see the segment tonight of the troops going home? one was a group of what looked like army getting on the plane at Da Nang 1972. all had m14s on their shoulders. there was an army brass standing on the boarding stand talking to them as the got on.
on another note a boy i used to work with was a radio operator about 1969-70. he had an m2 carbine in a paratrooper stock. he said he was sure his lt took that weapon home with him.
andy

wbm · November 10th, 2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsinaname181

My uncle was a corpsman in vietnam. he served with an infantry rifle squad. he was shot in the head. he still walks funny. he, and you all did not deserve that whatsoever.

It's a long shot but does your uncle's name happen to be C.P. Clifton?

M_anstrom · November 10th, 2011, 10:06 PM

Wow, just finished the part where Artie Wiknik was talking about when he came home and was made to feel ashamed in his uniform by the "welcoming" he was given... that was powerful, letting that sink in brought a tear to my eye...

tmcfalls · November 11th, 2011, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyh1956

did anyone see the segment tonight of the troops going home? one was a group of what looked like army getting on the plane at Da Nang 1972. all had m14s on their shoulders. there was an army brass standing on the boarding stand talking to them as the got on.
on another note a boy i used to work with was a radio operator about 1969-70. he had an m2 carbine in a paratrooper stock. he said he was sure his lt took that weapon home with him.
andy

I saw that and was about to ask if that footage was correct for the time period. I couldn't make out the patch on the soldiers getting on the plane but the officer had a 101st Airborne patch on.

Old Geezer · November 11th, 2011, 08:19 AM

I suppose it varied from unit to unit and branch to branch, but when I was in Nam (67-68) I was issued an M14. I left in December of '68 and still hadn't gotten an M16 - although the ARVNs had them. Most of my stateside training was with the M14 and only a little with the M16. Of the two, I preferred the 14.

Watching the series does bring back some memories and not all of them are bad.

hammonje · November 11th, 2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsinaname181

I want to personally seek out any and every airport hippie protestor that ever EVER said anything bad to a nam vet... and beat the effing' brakes off them.

Me too bro. These guys fought in deplorable conditions. The jungle is not the place for young Americans. Either is the desert, don't get me wrong. They were plucked from society and sped away to a some god forsaken part of Vietnam. Country rejected them and these ignorant hippies never realized that their ability to protest was b/c of the sacrifices of men and women they denegrated. You can be a huge slacker punk because someone else sacrificed mind, body and soul so you can sit on your fat ass and whine. They can't be that bright. They did a lot of damage not only to returning vets, but to the nation as a whole. The spirit flipped from community and nation to the desires of the individual. Vietnam created scars and divisions that today are ever present. Hopefully, with young men and women like yourself we can again gain pride in our nation and the spirit of devout nationalism that is healthy for a prosperous and progressive country.

My heart goes out to our men and women in unifiorm. You guys are the cream of the crop of our society. You must not be wasted and need to come home and utilize your skill sets to inspire and lead others.

Happy Veterans Day to all vets that read this post!!!!!! We value and love you. Keep your head down and your chin up. First and foremost, don't take any uneccessary risks. We need you home.

Oxmix · November 11th, 2011, 09:49 AM

I never saw any protestors during my 2 years of service, 1967-1969, as those on Vietnam in HD claimed. I never encountered anyone who said anything derogatory, or gave me a dirty look because I was in uniform. The only protestors I ever saw were on Okinawa in 1969. The Okinawans who were working for the military were protesting because they wanted higher wages.

Regards

Ox

hueygunner · November 11th, 2011, 02:28 PM

i was watching it last night and a few minutes into the program one of my old blackcat hueys was like right there in front. sent chills down my spine. did not sleep a wink last night. jeff

andyh1956 · November 13th, 2011, 07:29 AM

i lived in Arlington Va during the '60s. saw mlk march on Washington. sat on top of sonny's surplus store in Georgetown eating pizza while they rioted & burnt cars on street below. we had Vietnamese terps come to our house to eat & go shopping with my mom. i remember how pretty those girls were. so we went to the airport quite a bit. went to get a marine who accompanied my cousin home when he got killed. saw some ugly stuff that i didn't understand at the time. thought i had forgot about all that. i remember green berets standing with m14' on their shoulder taking abuse from hippies & looking straight ahead. when i was hauling corn for bungie in Vicksburg the scale operator & i went to a quickie food to get some stuff to cook burgers. they had a 10 % off deal for gulf war vets. i asked "what do Vietnam vets get?" was told nothing. i told them Edna's husband was a Vietnam vet & we were leaving & going to piggly wiggly. went to NYC on a 9th grade class trip on trailways bus. went to UN building. they even threw crap on us for going in. i didn't think a few of us would EVER get out of detention after what happened after that, but we gave them reason to think twice about doing that again. God bless vets.
andy

airgreek · December 18th, 2011, 02:04 PM

My father in law lost both of his legs (knee down) fighting that war. I was watching this with him and he kept telling me how much he loved the M14. He told me that the M16 was a POS at the time since it had a horrible reputation of jamming. He told me that there were a few soldiers that had lost their lives because their M16 jammed, so he specifically asked for the M14. He then had a selector switch put on his and he immediately fell in love.