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Army to Adopt SIG Sauer Handgun

This is a discussion on Army to Adopt SIG Sauer Handgun within the Handguns forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Originally Posted by swagbrdr That's nice. Tissue damage is cute and all, but how about terminal stopping power? Bigger hole, more blood...dead bad guy. Without ...


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Old January 20th, 2017, 07:06 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by swagbrdr View Post
That's nice. Tissue damage is cute and all, but how about terminal stopping power? Bigger hole, more blood...dead bad guy.
Without trying to re-debate the 45 vs. 9 mm argument again - the FBI seems to have done that quite well. "Terminal stopping power" is a well documented myth. Most studies show that there are multiple reasons why attackers stop but from a physical perspective, only critical damage to the central nervous system or to major organs will do this.

In pistol caliber rounds, blood loss due to impact trauma can take minutes to hours to cause loss of consciousness. The differences between 45 and 9 mm are indistinguishable in this regard. I will post references later if I have the time.

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Old January 20th, 2017, 07:36 AM   #32
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45ACP is like the 9mm,

but for men.

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Old January 20th, 2017, 12:12 PM   #33
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Good point. One issue with the physics of ballistics, tissue damage, and impact against a person is mass. Of course, mass is inherently calculated via energy. But doesn't more metal mean more damage? Especially if that metal has a larger surface area?
It has to be appreciated that hole size(surface area) increases with the SQUARE of the radius, as in

https://aos.iacpublishinglabs.com/qu...cx.aos.ask.com

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Old January 20th, 2017, 12:25 PM   #34
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I would not want to be the recipient of Federal HST 9mm. That thing gets a big narly mushroom on it thAt I wouldn't want cutting thru me. 45 is bigger but it also depends on what it does and how well it expands.
If it's ball for ball, then I'd go .45.
But HP gives you a lot of great options for 9mm.

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Old January 20th, 2017, 01:32 PM   #35
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I'm not sure why this is devolving into a discussion about caliber. The P320 is largely caliber agnostic. It can be purchased in, or converted to, 9mm, .40 S&W, and .357 SIG. And it's availble in .45 ACP, but I understand there are issue's converting between this caliber and the others.

The fact that they've chosen a flexible, reliable platform should be the focus. For the most part, caliber is not really germane to this choice for sidearm.

Meet the P320: https://www.sigsauer.com/edu/meet-the-p320/

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Old January 20th, 2017, 01:45 PM   #36
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Here is more on the issues regarding conversion from 9mm/.40/.357 to .45 ACP:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/sig...45-acp-review/

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Old January 20th, 2017, 02:03 PM   #37
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I'm not sure why this is devolving into a discussion about caliber. The P320 is largely caliber agnostic. It can be purchased in, or converted to, 9mm, .40 S&W, and .357 SIG. And it's availble in .45 ACP, but I understand there are issue's converting between this caliber and the others.

The fact that they've chosen a flexible, reliable platform should be the focus. For the most part, caliber is not really germane to this choice for sidearm.

Meet the P320: https://www.sigsauer.com/edu/meet-the-p320/
You can convert down from a .45 to a lesser caliber.
You can't convert up to a .45

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Old January 20th, 2017, 02:22 PM   #38
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I'm not sure that's correct. Otherwise, why would they bother making the lesser caliber FCUs? Everything could have been standardized on the .45 FCU.

Do you know from experience or is there an article/specs you could cite?


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Old January 20th, 2017, 02:51 PM   #39
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I'm not sure that's correct. Otherwise, why would they bother making the lesser caliber FCUs? Everything could have been standardized on the .45 FCU.

Do you know from experience or is there an article/specs you could cite?
It's in the article you sent out , at the end.

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Old January 20th, 2017, 03:05 PM   #40
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It's in the article you sent out , at the end.
Ah, I think I see what you mean. It was the first comment after the article.

"Clarification on the 320 and if it can be converted back and fourth from a 45 to a 9mm. I just took a few classes at the Sig Sauer Academy and fell in love with the 320 after firing it at their facility. I had the same questions about converting and I was told directly from the rep at the pro-shop on the Sig Sauer campus that yet it can, with a catch. You must purchase a 320 chambered in 45 first and then you can purchase any of the conversion kits available to convert it (say to 9mm). You canít do this the other way around. I purchased a P320C chambered in 45 and plan to convert it to 9mm (full size). I hope this helps as I am sure that the dealers may not have this information and to get the most bang for your buck (options speaking) purchase the 45 first and then convert."

I'm still not sure that makes sense to me. Why even manufacture the other FCU?

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Old January 20th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #41
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Conceptually it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.
If your a .45 shooter, it's unlikely you would want flexibility to shoot 9mm.
A .45 guy is a .45 guy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennamite View Post
Ah, I think I see what you mean. It was the first


comment after the article.

"Clarification on the 320 and if it can be converted back and fourth from a 45 to a 9mm. I just took a few classes at the Sig Sauer Academy and fell in love with the 320 after firing it at their facility. I had the same questions about converting and I was told directly from the rep at the pro-shop on the Sig Sauer campus that yet it can, with a catch. You must purchase a 320 chambered in 45 first and then you can purchase any of the conversion kits available to convert it (say to 9mm). You canít do this the other way around. I purchased a P320C chambered in 45 and plan to convert it to 9mm (full size). I hope this helps as I am sure that the dealers may not have this information and to get the most bang for your buck (options speaking) purchase the 45 first and then convert."

I'm still not sure that makes sense to me. Why even manufacture the other FCU?

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Old January 20th, 2017, 03:12 PM   #42
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Well I never met the sidearm in question but I know I don't like it! And as to effectiveness the M16 proved a l...o...n...g time ago that a good small hammer is better than a good big hammer. Now thankfully we have federal agencies to prove it.

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Old January 20th, 2017, 03:15 PM   #43
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Conceptually it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.
If your a .45 shooter, it's unlikely you would want flexibility to shoot 9mm.
A .45 guy is a .45 guy.
I can see how it might be helpful if you want to mooch your buddy's 9mm ammo at the range.

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Old January 20th, 2017, 03:46 PM   #44
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Never was a fan of the Beretta, a good weapon just never felt or pointed as naturally for me as the 1911.
Sig makes quality weapons, but why change. Oh, $$$$ that's why. Someone is making bank on the deal and it isn't the tax payer.
Unless there has been new data released in the past few years comparing the .45acp ball and 9mm ball, the .45 is touted as superior. The data on modern 9mm expanding and .45acp expanding still gives the edge to the .45acp. That is based on the most current reports I reviewed prior to retiring a few years ago.
I have seen how modern expanding 9mm performs on humans. I would not feel unprotected with a weapon chambered in it. That said, I am and always will be a believer in the 1911, chambered in the caliber it was designed for, .45acp.
Bottom line, don't bring a handgun to a gun fight unless you have no other firearm. I know I am preaching to the quire here. Carbines and sub-guns chambered in the same handgun cartridges are far superior to any handgun and there is no question as to the superiority of a rifle.

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Old January 20th, 2017, 03:56 PM   #45
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I never really like the berreta either. I bought one in the 1990s only kept it a few months. Traded it for a glock 17L gen 2 that I still have. I shot a lot of steel back then.

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