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Bullet Stopping Power

This is a discussion on Bullet Stopping Power within the Handguns forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Some interesting results in the shooting he reviewed... Makes you wonder what you should carry.. Your thoughts... http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...stopping-power...


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Old January 4th, 2015, 04:59 PM   #1
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Bullet Stopping Power

Some interesting results in the shooting he reviewed...
Makes you wonder what you should carry..
Your thoughts...

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...stopping-power

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Old January 4th, 2015, 05:36 PM   #2
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Nomad, I feel that any statistical study of handgun "stopping power" is inherently flawed due to the fact that there are so many variables in play in the real world that the results are confounded by this variation. This huge amount of variability is what causes a shot with a cal .22LR to be effective in one case where a shot with a .44 Magnum is ineffective in yet another case. Even with all engagements with a specific caliber, there are multiple different projectile designs, multiple different sizes of adversaries, multiple different engagement angles, multiple different engagement ranges and most importantly multiple different points of impact. One is best to follow this simple advice - carry a pistol that shoots the most powerful and largest ammunition that you can effectively shoot well. Rick

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Old January 4th, 2015, 05:43 PM   #3
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Nomad, I feel that any statistical study of handgun "stopping power" is inherently flawed due to the fact that there are so many variables in play in the real world that the results are confounded by this variation. This huge amount of variability is what causes a shot with a cal .22LR to be effective in one case where a shot with a .44 Magnum is ineffective in yet another case. Even with all engagements with a specific caliber, there are multiple different projectile designs, multiple different sizes of adversaries, multiple different engagement angles, multiple different engagement ranges and most importantly multiple different points of impact. One is best to follow this simple advice - carry a pistol that shoots the most powerful and largest ammunition that you can effectively shoot well. Rick

Not to mention all of the various levels of "chemically enhanced invulnerability" one might expect to encounter in certain neighborhoods.

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Old January 4th, 2015, 05:46 PM   #4
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carry the gun you can shoot well

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Old January 4th, 2015, 05:55 PM   #5
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While I don't have a link, . . . remember reading a piece on "one shot stopping power" some time ago.

The author IIRC used all or mostly LEO shootings, . . . and his opinion was the .357 mag was the all time winner.

That disagrees with the OP's opinion, . . . but then again it was based on people who had some training (don't know about the OP's subjects), . . . and had a serious impetus to stop the gun fight, quickly.

Just a tidbit from a wide reading handgun fan.

May God bless,
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Old January 4th, 2015, 06:01 PM   #6
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I am often reminded of a statement by Colonel Walter Walsh when asked about the handgun with the best "knock down power". He said if you wanted knock down power, you would be best to use a pick up truck. If any one should know about gunfighting, Colonel Walsh should know. Rick

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Old January 4th, 2015, 06:16 PM   #7
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When it comes to stopping power with a handgun never fire just one round and see what happens. I don't care what kind of firearm you are shooting. If you are justified in shooting, double or triple tap the perpetrator at least. Keep firing until he stops. Never say you were shooting to kill but were trying to stop the individual. Don't shoot to wound either. That is total BS. I worked emergency room security in several trauma hospitals and have seen a lot of people shot to shreds that survived and were still fighting with the police that brought them in. Some people on certain drugs are dead but don't know it and are still going. I was shot in the right leg at almost point blank range with a 44 round pushing over 1,000 FPS. The bullet hit my femur leaving a nasty groove in the bone. It spun me around and knocked me to the ground but according to witnesses I was back on my feet in less then a second. I was totally unaware of having been shot and still functioning normally. The only true gauge of stopping power from a handgun is when the person on the receiving end actually stops. As was previously stated, carry the gun you can shoot well because a hit with a .22 is better then a miss with a .45.

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Old January 4th, 2015, 06:31 PM   #8
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9x23 Winchester or .357 Magnum. Take your pick:

http://38super.net/Pages/comparisons.html

The OP's linked essay brings up some interesting points. Most important is that a handgun is a poor substitute for a long gun. However, the data seems very heterogeneous and unscientific. Bullet type should be critically important. A modern 9mm Luger hollow point may very well function better than a .45 round nose.

Why is a J-frame revolver inherently slower to shoot than other handguns? The author obviously doesn't know anything about Jerry Miculek. Yes, I can shoot a large N-frame 625 faster than an Airweight 642 because of recovery time, but a small 9mm is no faster than a small revolver for me.

I still like .45 Auto +P for inside the house... Until I can get to a shotgun.

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Old January 4th, 2015, 11:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwight55 View Post
While I don't have a link, . . . remember reading a piece on "one shot stopping power" some time ago.

The author IIRC used all or mostly LEO shootings, . . . and his opinion was the .357 mag was the all time winner.

That disagrees with the OP's opinion, . . . but then again it was based on people who had some training (don't know about the OP's subjects), . . . and had a serious impetus to stop the gun fight, quickly.

Just a tidbit from a wide reading handgun fan.

May God bless,
Dwight
I believe that was a study and resulting book done by Evan P. Marshall back in the 80's and early 90's.

Found a link: http://www.stoppingpower.net/http://

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Old January 4th, 2015, 11:47 PM   #10
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We are all carrying the wrong caliber as according to the link 25% of shots with a 25ACP were fatal.

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Old January 4th, 2015, 11:55 PM   #11
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Number one rule for a gunfight....HAVE A GUN! The best gun is the one you are carrying at the moment, as for stopping power...shot placement trumps knockdown power every time! I generally carry a small .32acp, it is small enough that I never am tempted to leave it behind and conceals quite nicely, I can also put all seven rounds inside of a six inch circle at ten feet as fast as I can pull the trigger!

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Old January 5th, 2015, 05:22 AM   #12
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I don't put much stock into these type studies. With a handgun you don't have a man stopper. Today, with all the development in bullets design, studies from the 80's must be taken with a grain of salt. With today's modern bullets, a well designed bullet of 9mm or larger is going to do damage. Today we don't have the shoot once and wait and see what happens, it's keeping shooting till the threat has stopped.

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Old January 5th, 2015, 06:04 AM   #13
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I can't recall who but I once read a well known trainer's comments that all handguns make poor fight stoppers and that there is a rise in multiple assailants. His recommendation was a high cap 9 mm and shooting multiple times until threat was stopped with a budget of 3-5 rounds per target. He equated it to a "dose" so a 15 round 9 should handle at least 3 assailants before needing reloading. This made sense to me and while I love me some 4 something handguns I would rather carry a 3 dose 9 stoked with some good ammo. There are many reasons why the FBI is going back to 9 mm but modern bullet design and mag capacity I am sure top the list.

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Old January 5th, 2015, 06:28 AM   #14
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Twenty four years as a County Sheriff seventeen of those as a Range officer.
Shot placement two to the chest, heart and spinal cord first off....Second two shots to the hips, mobility is gone and threat on the ground...Bleeding out. EMS is in route.....
Shot placement first is what I teach. A button on the chest a small target focus on it. shots follow.

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Old January 5th, 2015, 04:51 PM   #15
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I was in LE when the "big" professional studies using ballistic gelatin, interviews with emergency room doctors and computer modeling stated the 9MM was better than the .45 acp.

I carried three guns during those years. A Colt Combat Commander in .45 ACP, a M29 S&W with those Remington 240 grain LSWC called the "Medium Load" (just over 1000 fps) and finally a S&W 686 with Federal or Speer 125 grain HPs. I never had to shoot anyone.

I did, however, read in the LE publications of the time (including the yearly FBI reports on Police Officers killed) many reports of failure of the 9MM which lead to the adoption of the 10MM first, then the .40 S&W when people had issues with 10MM recoil and some departments actually going to the .45acp.

Hey, I play with a 9MM now, but I don't carry it. I carry a .40 S&W with those high velocity 135 grain HPs. Do I think the 9MM will get it done? Probably, but I like the ones that hold 18 or 20 rounds.

Use what you can hit with. Just don't go bear hunting with the high cap 9MM or it might be the day the bear eats you.

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