Marines give Colt the nod for new pistol - M14 Forum

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Marines give Colt the nod for new pistol

This is a discussion on Marines give Colt the nod for new pistol within the Handguns forums, part of the Gun Forum category; The Marines have awarded Colt the contract for the MARSOC 1911 .45 caliber. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...ESRC=army-a.nl...


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Old July 26th, 2012, 10:14 AM   #1
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Exclamation Marines give Colt the nod for new pistol

The Marines have awarded Colt the contract for the MARSOC 1911 .45 caliber.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...ESRC=army-a.nl

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Old July 30th, 2012, 04:45 PM   #2
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In am glad to see the Colt 1911 back in the hands of our troops again, albeit in slightly different form.

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Old July 30th, 2012, 06:05 PM   #3
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I think there are alot of old salt gun writers and gun experts saying "I told you so!". The 1911 won't die! Now I wonder how long it will be before the M14 or equivalent 30 caliber comes back on line with the service.

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Old July 30th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #4
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oh boy, just wait til the Colt MARSOC models hit the local gunshop. I wonder what the price will be?

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Old July 30th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #5
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It's too bad it's only for MARSOC and not the Marine Corps as a whole.

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Old July 30th, 2012, 06:30 PM   #6
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1911s for the USMC, Bravo Zulu!!!

Glad to see this happening.

Here is a link to my most favorite story about a Marine using a 1911 for what it was made for… Enjoy…

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/disti...gi?distID=5745

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Old July 30th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #7
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It's essentially the Colt Rail Gun with some minor tweaks. The actual specs haven't been released. Obvious differences are the color and the mainspring housing has a lanyard loop. I have the all black Rail Gun and out of the box it's the best 1911 I have ever owned and shot.

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Old July 30th, 2012, 09:01 PM   #8
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I'm sorry to be the downer in the 1911 glory story, and as much as I do respect the 1911 being a nice pistol when done right, it's extremely outdated and stupid of the Marines in my opinion to order a new batch.

There's got to be something else behind this. Either money in a generals or politicians pocket, buddies doing favors or someone buying their favorite instead of what's best. There are more modern, more reliable, less complex designed, lighter, higher capacity, polymer framed .45's out there than the 1911. Easier to maintain and less dependant on lubrication too.

An H&K, FN or Beretta PX4 would have been a smarter choice to me, but obviously smart didn't have a lot to do with this choice. It won't be the last they choose though that makes me shake my head I'm sure.

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Old July 30th, 2012, 09:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionseye View Post
I'm sorry to be the downer in the 1911 glory story, and as much as I do respect the 1911 being a nice pistol when done right, it's extremely outdated and stupid of the Marines in my opinion to order a new batch.

There's got to be something else behind this. Either money in a generals or politicians pocket, buddies doing favors or someone buying their favorite instead of what's best. There are more modern, more reliable, less complex designed, lighter, higher capacity, polymer framed .45's out there than the 1911. Easier to maintain and less dependant on lubrication too.

An H&K, FN or Beretta PX4 would have been a smarter choice to me, but obviously smart didn't have a lot to do with this choice. It won't be the last they choose though that makes me shake my head I'm sure.
First of all, everyone has a right to their own opinion on what they believe to be "what's best."

I emboldened a part of your post because I can speak directly to it, having been involved in varying degrees with the prototype and acceptance phase of the M40A1, MEUSOC .45 Pistol, M16A2, and the original DMR M14.

When the Corps decides they need or want a new weapon system, the first thing is done is a "requirements package" is drawn up for the weapon and that is often the subject of HUGE amounts of debate to even some knock down drag out fights. A HUGE amount of weight is given to the End Users on what they want and need in this stage of the process and they also get involved with testing weapons that are submitted and in making suggestions on the test weapons BEFORE they are accepted. Now, I would never try to hand anyone "a line" about we always got it right the first time because all of those weapons turned out to be the best compromise of what we wanted. We even royally screwed up IMO on putting that DARN burst control device in the M16A2 and especially the POS one that is in it and that Colt designed.

One of the "big ticket items" in the requirements package was the pistols HAD to be capable of firing 20,000 rounds without major damage to the frame, slide or barrel. At least some of the makers of "more modern, polymer framed pistols" chose not to even ENTER their pistols into the competition, because they knew their pistols could not satisfy that requirement. Another was there had to be a way to positively mount a light or laser or other types of sights to the pistol. This was one thing we could never satisfy the MEUSOC/SOCCOM Marines about when we used the orignal M1911A1's we used to build the original MEUSOC .45's with because we could not come up with a good way to mount a picatinney rail on them. It probably would have taken a MAJOR redesign to have a Picatinney Rail on a Polymer frame that would still be good after 20,000 rounds. Yes, they perhaps COULD have done it, but I suppose they were not interested in doing it for a contract of only 4,000 pistols.

So AFTER the "Requirements Package" is argued out, then the list is offered to ANY maker of weapons who are interested in competing. We are required by Federal Law and DOD directives to test any pistol that was offered for the testing process. I don't know this to be true from my own experience, but it has been reported that no maker of "more modern, polymer framed pistols" even entered the competition. If they did, they got a fair test against the stipulations of the Requirements Package and THEY WERE FOUND WANTING and not able to meet the stipulations of the Requirements Package.

One may argue it "is not fair" that the pistols were required to meet the 20,000 round requirement of other requirements, but that argument was LOST while the Requirements Package was being developed and cussed and discussed.

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Last edited by Gus Fisher; July 30th, 2012 at 10:09 PM.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #10
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Oh going back to VERY early in my Career, we Marines were mocked and ridiculed for sticking with a Bolt Action for the M40A1 and we were called "Old Fashioned, Not Modern, Out of Touch, etc., etc. for doing it as the Army already had the M21 Sniper system based on the M14. Now the M21 made an acceptable medium range Sniper Rifle, but it could not and did not hold the long range accuracy we Marines demanded of a Sniper Rifle. So what happened? Well after a few years, the Army asked us if we could make several thousand M40A1's for them and we just did not have the manpower and resources to do it, so they went to Remington for a BOLT ACTION, old fashioned, not most modern rifle when they developed the M24 sniper rifle and pretty much dropped the M21 for serious sniper work.

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Old July 30th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #11
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The only other entrant if my memory serves me was a Springfield entry. I think it was the Operator. Seems to me the Marines knew what they wanted and the way I understand it had been using Springfield frames and such to fill in the gaps for several years. Colt won the competition. I've read all the arguments against the 1911 yet it's still going strong. Only the SAA has a longer production life but that's more for nostalgia. The 1911 on the other hand has been copied by damn near every major firearms manufacturer in the world. It set a standard that in all reality hasn't been beat. I don't think most polymer framed pistols are going to be around 100 years from now. The 1911 just may be. I also think it a ridiculous argument they are difficult to maintain or somehow unsafe for troops to carry. Our military carried it through every major conflict of the 20th Century and worked just fine.

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Old July 30th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #12
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I think a Kimber pistol also made it into the final three, from what I read. I do know it was down to three pistols in the end when Colt won.

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Old July 30th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #13
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Lionseye, there you go with that blasphemy again!

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Old July 30th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #14
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4,000 is a small contract, I can understand why companies wouldn't bother.


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Old July 30th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #15
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Ya Im sure that 4,000 pistols is all the Corps will buy! Come on.

Although I have talked with Marines that say the .9mm is a fine pistol I found that the over whelming majority would rather have the 1911. I have a feeling this is just a foot in the door contract and when the grunts see their fellow brothers carrying the 1911 they will be screaming for one of their own!
Should never have gotten rid of the 1911 in the first place!

And why did they choose a series 80 pistol w a plastic main spring housing?

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