M14 Forum

GARRARD · February 18th, 2012, 08:52 AM

Quote:

RALEIGH -- Little more than a year after buying 150 collector-grade handguns, officials at the N.C. Division of Alcohol Law Enforcement say the $1,055 pistols were so unreliable they had to get rid of them.

ALE Director John Ledford said the Kimber pistols repeatedly suffered such problems as rounds jamming during training exercises, broken sights and the weapon's safety button sometimes falling off. He made a deal with a local firearms dealer to swap the pricey pistols for less expensive handguns without spending any additional money.

"Failure of a weapon during training is problematic enough, but if any of these types of failures occurred during a life-and-death situation the result could be loss of life to a sworn member of the division or an innocent civilian," Ledford wrote in a November memo to justify the new weapons. "During violent encounters with armed suspects, reliability and speed are paramount."

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/...#storylink=cpy

stoky · February 18th, 2012, 09:53 AM

I think demand for Kimbers exceeded their ability to ensure quality some time ago. That, and abrasive customer service make other manufactures better choices.

bd111 · February 18th, 2012, 10:10 AM

Another case of Kimber live & learn.

Seventh Fleet · February 18th, 2012, 10:31 AM

I have an older model Kimber Combat Custom Carry Model, which is similar to a light weight Colt Commander and it has been very reliable. But I have replaced the crappy factory MIM parts with good old fashioned parts from my 1911 parts bin. The only thing still Kimber on mine is the receiver, slide and barrel. The hammer, hammer strut, grip safety, disconnector, sear, sear spring, recoil spring, spring guide, entire mainspring assembly, trigger, slide lock have been replaced.

But it doesn't bother me since I only paid $400.00 OTD from a local pawn shop for the like new 1911 when I bought it several years before I retired. I carried mine as a LEO duty weapon and it had to be right and it wasn't when I got it.

7th

Greenhorn · February 18th, 2012, 01:59 PM

Its a Cohen thing.

Look at what he did to Sig too.

GeneCo · February 18th, 2012, 02:43 PM

Another case of paying extra for a name. Btw, No name is ammune.

USMC6094 · February 18th, 2012, 03:14 PM

ALE's been having problems with these since day one. The local agent that works the area where I live has been carrying a Sig for the last year. The root of the problem was that ALE request so many specific things in the weapon that they were all basically custom guns. One more State Of NC status symbol that went bust.

Hgunner · February 18th, 2012, 03:25 PM

Kimber I think that says it all.

BDH · February 18th, 2012, 08:03 PM

It doesn't appear to be just Kimber...they are trading off and buying new rifles, shotguns and pistols every 3-5 years. A small organization can't be wearing out their firearms that quickly. Seems like an easy way for everyone to have a new gun bought at very reasonable prices when new guns are brought in.

Read the expanded article for more info.

Bruce

Hgunner · February 18th, 2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDH

It doesn't appear to be just Kimber...they are trading off and buying new rifles, shotguns and pistols every 3-5 years. A small organization can't be wearing out their firearms that quickly. Seems like an easy way for everyone to have a new gun bought at very reasonable prices when new guns are brought in.

Read the expanded article for more info.

Bruce

Just another Taxpayer funded subsidy for our most grateful and humble public servants.

Hgunner · February 18th, 2012, 08:50 PM

And don't get me wrong about Kimber, they use to make very good 1911. But that was back in the early to mid 90's. Now days they throw a lot of bling on a substandard product and advertise it with a fancy name, and try and make you believe its a silk purse when its really a pork belly.
Kimber should get back to basics and build a good quality reliable 1911 like they use to. Then offer options while maintaining strict QC standards. Dollar for dollar there are better options on the market today than Kimber.

mrmark99 · February 18th, 2012, 08:53 PM

Not to say anything bad about police officers, but in the past few years I have two officers bring me their Glocks because they attempted to fully dissemble them completely for cleaning. This for some reason included driving pins outs of the receiver, and losing springs in the process.

USMC6094 · February 18th, 2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hgunner

Just another Taxpayer funded subsidy for our most grateful and humble public servants.

ALE is selective law enforcement from a city police officers point of view.

Some agencies trade thier weapons in regularly so they get better trade in value, the NC HP has gone thru 2 different pistols in the last 5 years, now they have Sigs in .357 Sig and every Trooper I know loves them, and they really like their S&W M&P-15s.

dozier · February 19th, 2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMC6094

ALE is selective law enforcement from a city police officers point of view.

Some agencies trade thier weapons in regularly so they get better trade in value, the NC HP has gone thru 2 different pistols in the last 5 years, now they have Sigs in .357 Sig and every Trooper I know loves them, and they really like their S&W M&P-15s.

No, there is something wrong with trading in good reliable pistols on a 3-5 yr basis. Of course they are going to get a better trade in value, because the pistols can still be considered basically "new". A good majority of the LEOs I know only shoot once a year to qualify. So after 3 years you have a total off less than 200 rounds thru some of the weapons. Wore out, not a chance, they are barely broken in!!! The only guys that make out on the deal, is the officers that are allowed to purchase these weapons first at half of thier real value. Look at the article where it says that some officers purchase 4-5 pistols when they are given the opportunity. You think they are keeping them all. Heck no, they are reselling them for $$$$. The real losers are the state taxpayers who have to shell out the difference between the trade in, and the cost of the new weapons every 3-5 yrs. I also ask why a Department needs Custom built pistols, when a Glock will do everything that the Kimber can? That article smells fishy of somebody getting a kickback. If I were a taxpayer in NC, I would be screaming for a audit of ALE's purchasing policies. dozier

USMC6094 · February 19th, 2012, 01:03 PM

dozier
The HP switched because the Beretta pistols they switched to in 2006 or 2007 were proving problematic. They went to the Sig and havent had a single issue since.
In my agencies case, we switched to Gen 4 Glock 22's and traded in our mixed bag off Gen 2 and 3 Glocks even for Gen 4's.
ALE is an entity unto itself and their reasoning baffles the rest of the LEO's in this state. Most of us local LEO types think it was so theyd have a cool pistol to go with their state badge.
As for other departments trading in for something else, thats up to them and the Boards of Commissioners they answer to. Maybe its wasteful, maybe it fits their budgetary needs, I cant speak for them, but I wont second guess something I'm not privy too.
Just say'n and I'm not trying to stir anything up, but consider ALE is a state agency, and they have alot more money to play with than a city PD like I work for.