M14 Forum

gerdjan

Hello there

I' m from Holland so if there are some mistakes in the grammar please forgive me.
Me and my sage m14 go to my gunclub evey week where I'm an instuctor for new members. About 7 weeks ago we had a guy from the military who wanted membership.
His gunsafety was ok so I okeyed him after six weeks of training (six mondays) to shoot without an instructor.The following monday I was on my aftershooting beer when somebody stormed in yelling that there had been an accident and somebody was wounded.
It turned out thet the guy had been shooting in a t shirt with a taurus 9 mm.
One of the 9mm shels had landed in his Tshirt. He involuntarily moved his gunhand down to the right and pulled the trigger. The shot went thrue the boarding and hit another guy in the knee. The bullet passed underneath the kneecap but did not hit bone.It will take a year for the guy to heal. The shooter was collected by the mp for questioning. Fortunately we were able to keep the accident out of the media because this kind of incidents are a big deal in gun scared the Netherlands.
After having shared this with you I would welcome suggestions from you guys on: training, dresscode or whatever to keep this kind of stupid accidents from happening.
And could this happen to you? And how would you prevent it.

thanks very much and happy shooting Gerd jan

leadbug

Not to sound flip, but I think that only a person that has a low threshold for pain and discipline would do this. It would take me a HELL of a lot of pain to let my strong hand move involuntarily.

A burn like that is on the very low side of tolerable pain. In my opinion, such a person should not be handling a firearm, especially anywhere near me. Don't be a wimp when you have a gun in your hand.

gerdjan

I agree

thanks

leonardc

I shoot rifles left handed and like to shoot HP. I can't begin to count all the times I've caught HOT '06 and 308 brass while on the line. Thank goodness I never shot anyone while jumping around.

1KPerDay

Man, hot pistol brass hurts. but not as much as hot RIFLE brass. Leonard, you must be made of frickin' IRON. :D

To the OP, how to prevent idiocy? Refuse to shoot with idiots. Not much else you can do to prevent it. Bulletproof barriers perhaps? Insist that the idiots only load one round in the magazine at a time?

DukeRustfield

I just feel bad for the dude who was shot! That's a big deal. I'd rather be shot in the bone I think than under the kneecap with all those tendons/ligaments. Those bastards never heal right (played soccer for 25+ years).

How would you prevent it? It reminds me of the military base I used to play basketball at and there were all these signs like every 20 feet (it seemed) with some kind of wacky rule on it. Like no more than 3 people in the back of a truck with a drum barrel in it and no travelling over speed bumps faster than 5mph if your vehicle has more than 2 axles. I asked one guy about those signs and he said the commanding officers basically put in a new sign every time someone died or was seriously injured. After a number of decades they really added up.

SO, no shooting without long sleeve shirts tight at the collar? I live in Los Angeles and shoot in the desert and I still look a little askance at guys shooting in t-shirts and shorts. I'd rather wipe sweat off my brow than hot metal off my skin.

Therealkoop

I think its just a matter of safety mindset and training.

Whenever im not shooting I instinctively take my finger off the trigger. Its so "bad" for me that when I shoot IDPA with a 1911, I regularly take my finger out of the guard and apply the safty like 20 times a course.

"Youre gun sure clicks a lot" Ive been told. Whenever i move, trigger finger out safty up, when i transition to the opposite side of a barrel, same thing. Doesnt slow me down though!

I dont think there is much you can do. The person IMO probably shouldnt be shooting guns if he loses his composure over something so trivial. Imagine if he was in a life or death situation!

Whatsinaname181

I cant count how many times ive had hot 5.56/7.62/misc shell casings find their way down my shirt or vest. hurts like hell, but cant loose your composure... yay for brass scars!

Think of all the people with firearms that DIDNT have an accident today, gerdjan :D

willriskit

If the hot casing had gone down his jeans he could have wiped out the range!

Hgunner

Wearing a crew neck t-shirt/undershirt will help keep hot brass off the skin. May still burn but not as bad. I've had this happen a couple of times but just worked thru it so to speak.
Whats really a sight is when you take a woman shooting and a hot case goes between the ....well you know.

M1A's r BEST

I watched my buddy do a dance around the table (well, behind the table really) one day when a .22 rimfire case went down his shirt from the shooter next to him on the range. It left a really pretty sideways burn (showed the rim and side of the case and another that showed the base of the case with a really pretty "U" right in the center (it was a remington .22 case).

He jumped up and down but didn't point his .357 at anyone. I did have to restrain him from walking (jumping) to the next table to kick that poor guys ass.

I know a guy in NC that has a "funny" looking scar on his neck. Prone on the firing line, felt a burning/stinging pain on the left side of his neck and put his hand up there to find that not only had a piece of .308 brass from the shooter on his left hit him - it had stuck to his neck. Now I'll bet that really hurt. That brass is hot coming out of an M1A.

Mocos

Interesting but it sounded like the brass was from his own gun....I'm not familiar with a taurus and in what direction ejected cases take... he could have been a lefty. In any case, like in a previous post, he had a low tolerance for pain (and not much experience?) I've had my own brass bounce off a barricade and fall in between my shooting glasses and my face and still managed to keep my weapon downrange..no fun at all....

AirConda

I'd see stressing trigger discipline, safety engagement, and bearing. Train them that if something like that were to happen, they are to remove their finger instantly from the trigger. Run through drills with unloaded guns or training guns where they would have to react quickly by removing their finger from the trigger and also stress the importants of keeping composure. The moment you freak out and lose control is the moment yourself or someone else gets seriously hurt.

Coffindancer

Absolutely. After having just undergone ACL replacement surgery, the thought of a round going into my knee, below the kneecap, is enough to make me cringe.

I think AirConda has the best, most practical solution. Unfortunately, we can never make anything completely safe, and accidents will always happen. Especially with goofballs everywhere. Good thing that guy didn't kill anyone.

TheTurtle

Don't cut down the tree because of one bad apple. Our country has done it too many times. It was a mistake. Nothing more. Just inform people to know where their muzzle is and make damn sure you punish them when they don't. Mindset adjustments only.