M14 Forum

Dredsen

hey military guys chime in on this:

Do soldiers have a tendency to bear down on the trigger when stressed?
Like the stories you hear about a GI running out of ammo in HIGH stress firefight, then going to his serpa leg holster and pushing the button and pulling so hard that they put one in their foot? (this is only a rumor/story)

Granted this guy wasn't under heavy stress. Its just one of those accidents. Guns have them, but not as much as cars do. Both are necessary both are dangerous. Im sure more people get hurt driving and snowing skiing in the netherlands then they get hurt by guns. Shit happens. also wear a shooting jacket?
I'm pretty sure if i would have had that happen to me i would have used my free hand to try to brush the brass away or pull my shirt to free the cartridge. everyone is different though.

Young guns

Agreed he is the one at fault and should be punishid for his actions. Hot brass does hurt but you must keep your composure and follow the rules of safety. I had a .308 bounce of the back window of my truck as i shot at a coyote in the distance. That brass got caught in the coller of my button up shirt and boy did it hurt but i calmly took my finger of the trigger and set the rifle down. I still got that coyote too. But all joking aside when you instruct your students in your class you might want to tell them to keep there finger off the trigger untill they are ready to fire and keep calm if something should happen.
Good Shooting.

art7

I've personally experienced this accident three times in my 10 years of shooting, though not with that outcome.

Both my buddy and I have experienced a case hitting us in the face and getting trapped between the face and the safety glasses. THere are several respnses that claim you should be able to withstand this pain, though I can assure you you will not. It is not about the pain, it is about the unexpected surprise and shock of burning your eye that will cause you to freak out. I was not there for my buddy's case, but in my case I kept the pistol pointed downrange and started flopping as I was desperately shaking my head, trying to dislodge the thing. Another few seconds and I might have started grabbing at my glasses and I'm not sure I would have thought to drop the pistol first.

The third case was my girlfriend, who had a hot case go down the neck of her T-shirt. She started screaming and trying to claw at it, and there was a discharge which popped a couple of holes in her coat, though luckily it did not hurt her. This case resulted in a small third degree burn, so it is not trivial.

I'm not sure I would fault the shooter. Getting burned unexpectedly is not part of gun training, and if it happens while you are shooting a string, your finger will be on the trigger when it does happen.

What I took away from it is that I always wear a baseball cap when shooting, just so stuff does not drop into my safety glasses. I have not thought about what clothing is needed to cover up cleavage while shooting, but perhaps that is a risk we should just live with.

Art

echokilo60

years back i was shooting with a young man that frequented our pistol range with his dad.a round from his pistol went in the sleeve of my t shirt,down my side resting at my waist line. hurt like a SOB,yea it left a mark but healed.i just locked up and took it,removed my finger from trigger and kept muzzle down range.bottom line don't be a ,take total responsibility for what you have in your hand.safe gun handling should be almost second nature,newbies must understand this. all of us have made mistakes,learn and teach from those experiences to avoid repeating them.

leadbug

But, alas, it is about a low threshold of pain and discipline. A hot piece of brass on any skin should be a pre-planned, mental preparation, and dealt with by "burning" calmly, as long as it takes to safely deal with a firearm, until you can correct the problem. A hot piece of brass is downright cold compared to some burns I have had to "work" through, with MUCH less at stake.

In other words, it shouldn't be a surprise, but expected. Should anything as slight as a relatively small first, second, or third degree burn be in progress, the knowledge of the fact that "it's not going to kill you" should take mental precedence. This is where good discipline and a high threshold for pain make a difference.

Dreampiper

Brass isn't the only danger. We had a guy get a bee behind his eye pro on the firing line one time and he started dancing a jig waving his pistol every where but down range. He got tackled and disarmed quickly.

I've been branded many times but the worst was as an explorer out on ftx in ft irwin with an armor unit. I was down in the loaders position on a m48a5 when an opfor jeep came cruising around a hill. The guy sitting on top of the turret grabbed the 60 on the pintle and turned it to the side and unloaded a whole belt (it seemed). All the brass and links showered down on me and had me jumping. I got quite a few burns.

Silverton4

Hey, Gerd jan. I hope your fellow member recovers soon. I've had ejected brass get in my collar when wearing a long sleeved twill shirt, so there may be no way to keep that kind of accident from happening again with a new dress code rule. Maybe an insistence on concentration and self discipline could help with members who are already committed to safety, but there may be no way to really prevent such a mistake from happening again.

I suppose that kind of accident could happen to me, but it's hard for me to picture myself as being the accidental shooter rather than the victim in the next lane.

My compliments on your command of English and thanks also for relating the incident. What a range report, huh?

Regards,
Ed

Silverton4

I've seen the same behavior in professionals as well and it's troubling. Poor situational awareness....... that's also known as HUA syndrome, ain't it? ahaha

Dredsen

My local range has major bee problems. They go after your sodas though i guess they are tough with all the people firing huge big bore rifles.

Philz M1A

Exactly, you have to know the audience and know what might be kosher for each environment.

triggernick

All ya gotta do is follow the safety rules:

1) Always keep your muzzle in a safe direction.
- key word ALWAYS. When we talk about this rule we use hot brass down your shirt/pants as an example (also a rouge swarm of angry hornets interested in your love bits...okay, maybe only I use that example...). If anything happens, follow rule 1 and no one gets shot.

2) keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target

3) if anyone is going downrange, NOONE touches firearms or magazines

4) make sure those around you follow the safety rules

(slightly adapted from protocol of a non-RSO supervised range)
I will not shoot with/near anyone not informed of theses rules and capable of following them.

On a side note, my wife was attending an Appleseed event and had brass go down her shirt and get pinned against her back by her sports bra. You know what, she kept her muzzle in a safe direction, because our instructors make sure everyone knows how important that is. She still has the scar from the brass, but that healed much faster than someone getting shot.

Sweets

Glad the slug was a 9 mm and not something big, soft, and/or expanding. I have to say the shooter was dangerously incompetent, but on the other hand cannot say I've never had an accidental discharge. For not keeping his muzzle pointed downrange no matter what, he would be barred from my shooting range, if they didn't shoot him out of hand for spoiling their unblemished civilian safety record.

TonyDedo

I recall when I was taking my first combat handgun class, I caught a piece of hot brass from my neighbor - went past my collar down the back of my neck and got stuck at the top of my undershirt. Hurt like hell, and left a nice little burn, took me a couple minutes to shake it out.

After the course of fire, the instructor was nice enough to point out the incident, and point out that I maintained trigger and muzzle discipline while I danced and shouted in pain.

LausDeo

Was with my buddy at the range once. He was to my left shooting my aunt's .22, I was shooting my Mauser. This is one of those bench-only ranges, mind you. I'm lining up my ironsights, about to squeeze and one of those cursed .22 casings flies into my eye and gets stuck behind my eyepro. Irritated the hell out of my eye, and left a nice burn mark on the skin around the upper inside corner of my left eye for a few weeks, in the shape of the casing, though thank God it didn't actually burn my eye. My immediate reaction was to set the rifle down and tear off my eyepro as quickly as I could. Notice I said "set" and not "drop", thankfully, because the rifle was made in 1943. The point is that I had more than enough presence of mind not to twitch my finger while flipping out over the hot casing that was burning my eye. To be honest, at first I wasn't even sure if there was something in my eye, but by the time my hand started to move to check I knew.

That's my experience anyways. I won't say it's unreasonable to accidentally discharge due to a hot casing, but in most cases I think it's really not a legitimate excuse.

Dredsen

ill say it again does anyone think being under extreme combat stress could possibly condition a tendency to bear down on the trigger?