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Navy Trophy Garand

This is a discussion on Navy Trophy Garand within the Gus Fisher forums, part of the Gun Professionals category; Have Navy Trophy Garand marked O-66 and thought you must have worked on these M1's or even took part in building them. My question is, ...


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Old March 17th, 2012, 02:39 AM   #1
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Navy Trophy Garand

Have Navy Trophy Garand marked O-66 and thought you must have worked on these M1's or even took part in building them. My question is, were these rifles accurized with any National Match modifications or were they just reconditioned by Marine Corps armorers? If they were just reconditioned, were brand new barrels and all new parts put on a reparked receiver? I have never field stripped my rifle to check all the parts because it is still in the box and packed for long term storage by the Corps. Figured you would be the man to ask.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 09:26 AM   #2
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There are Navy Trophy Garands issued by the Navy to Navy personnel and there are Marine Corps "Navy" Garands we issued as trophies to Marines.

I RECENTLY found out that up until about two years ago, ALL Marine Corps "Navy" Garands we issued were in 7.62mm caliber, but I saw a Navy Garand the Corps issued a couple of years ago that was original .30-06.

Marine Corps Issue Navy Garands almost always were issued with the Marine's name to whom it was awarded and the Divison Match or Marine Corps Match it was awarded from and the date. These rifles were also issued if someone won a "Yard Line" Match at the National Matches, or set a new National Record or other types of Marksmanship Achievement specified in the MCO on Competitive Marksmanship.

None of the rifles the Marine Corps issued as Trophy Rifles were issued as NM rifles. We did refinish the metal and wood in certain years, but we did not NM condition them before they were issued. Now, the Marine who won the rifle could have had it match conditioned after he/she won it, though, but that was not part of the award. It would have been something the owner had done later.

The Navy Issued two basic Types of Trophy Garands to Sailors. From very early in the program and more recently - the award rifles for the Navy Fleet Matches at either PAC or LANT (West Coast and East Coast Matches) was a standard Navy Garand in 7.62mm. The Award Rifles for the ALL Navy Matches was a NM condition 7.62mm Garand and I think it was that way for those who won higher Marksmanship Awards as well. Now, this information on how the Navy issued Garands to Sailors came from speaking to those of the Navy Marksmanship Unit as told to me. So if something isn't correct here on the Navy issuing these rifles, it comes from something I did not know.

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Old March 17th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #3
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Oh, as to the "O-66" engraved on the receiver, that means the rifle was rebuilt at the old Marine Ordnance Section when I believe it was in Philadelphia. That was before my time as a NM Armorer. I think I have seen O-65 and O-64 marks as well.

However, Navy Garands that the Navy issued to Sailors have also been seen with these markings. So basically what that means, alone, is the rifle was rebuilt at a Marine Ordnance Unit prior to being issued as a Trophy rifle to either Sailors or Marines.

If there is no documentation with the rifle, the engraving on the trigger housing will show if it is a "Navy" OR "Marine" award Rifle.

Also, Retired Navy Commander Jim Adell of the Garand Collectors Association keeps track of the records of the rifles issued. So if someone changed the trigger housing, he probably can assist with who, when and where the rifle was issued by serial number and that includes the Marine Issued Rifles as well.

So, what does it say on the front "curved plate" of your trigger housing?

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Old March 18th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #4
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Well Gus I field stripped SA M1 serial number 2444164, born January 1944. Every part is SA. I didn't check the barrel Mfg and date because I didn't want to strip her down any further. The rifle still has the desicant straw in the barrel.

The rifle was shipped from the Anniston Army Depot. Can't believe there were Marine Corps armorers on an Army base but can see where they would need USMC expertise. Also can't believe Marines would electro pencil O-66 on the flat of the receiver behind the rear sight instead of on a leg of an otherwise pristine receiver.

Could not find any markings on the trigger group other than the usual on the housing, hammer and safety.

In a short time she is going down the road still a virgin.

Thanks for the info Gus. Can't get used to calling a Master Gunnery Sgt by his first name. One time a boot fresh from PI said " Hey Sarge gimme a light". As no one was around he lit in a corner. I think he even quit smoking.

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Old March 18th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #5
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Gus, I didn't know the Ord Shop in Philly was still rebuilding small arms in the the mid 60's, I have always been under the impression the 0 marked rifles both M1 and M14 came from Albany Ga. or Barstow Ca.

I have seen many rebuilt M1's 0 marked 65 or 66 and they were in there original 30.06 but I have never seen a 0-65 or 0-66 marked M1 in 7.62?

Sgt0311, what numbers are on your barrel you should be able too read them when the op-rod is pulled too the rear.

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Old March 18th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
Gus, I didn't know the Ord Shop in Philly was still rebuilding small arms in the the mid 60's, I have always been under the impression the 0 marked rifles both M1 and M14 came from Albany Ga. or Barstow Ca.

I have seen many rebuilt M1's 0 marked 65 or 66 and they were in there original 30.06 but I have never seen a 0-65 or 0-66 marked M1 in 7.62?

Sgt0311, what numbers are on your barrel you should be able too read them when the op-rod is pulled too the rear.
OK, I'm sorry I did not make this clear in my earlier second post. I forgot to mention the Marine Corps rebuilt "0" marked rifles were rebuilt in .30-06. Marine Corps Armorers did not convert Garands to 7.62mm to my knowledge of any such rebuild programs. There is another thread in the Garand section on this forum about where and who did convert them to 7.62mm.

The information I got on them being done at Philly surprised me when I first heard of it as well to a point. However, I also know that some M40 Sniper Rifle's were modified and worked on there by Marine Armorers in that period for Viet Nam. I really don't know much about the Marine Ordnance Maintenance facility at Philly as it was just a few years before my time and it had long since stopped doing that kind of "Arsenal" or "Depot" Maintenance by the very early 70's when I came on board.

I do know that BEFORE the RTE Shop was consolidated and moved to Quantico, VA in either the very late 60's or more likely the early 1970's before I got there in Nov 1973 - there was an RTE Section at both Albany and Barstow. I do not know if they trained OJT's to become MOS 2112 Armorers at Barstow, but they did for sure at Albany. During 1958-62, the RTE Section at Albany was about 10 RTE Armorers along with however many OJT's they had at any given time. I do not know how many they had at Barstow, but I A$$ume it was about the same number. The Barstow RTE Section took care of building and rebuilding NM Garands and Pistols for Okinawa, Hawaii and basically West of the Mississippi and Albany took care of East of the Mississippi and Marine Forces in the Atlantic and Med. Both sections worked on Sniper and other special weapons as required as well. The Albany Armorers also took care of THE Marine Corps Rifle and Pistol Teams.

Now, what this post also does is point out something I should have written in my first post. Some of the lower level Navy Award Rifles the Navy handed out to Sailors for Marksmanship Achievement at the two Fleet Compeitions WERE also in .30-06 depending on the time frame of course. I don't know who decided or how it was decided what rifles were issued each year and why. Most likely it had everything to do with what they had on hand, just as it was with Marine Corps Trophy Rifles for so many years.

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Old March 18th, 2012, 09:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt 0311 View Post
Well Gus I field stripped SA M1 serial number 2444164, born January 1944. Every part is SA. I didn't check the barrel Mfg and date because I didn't want to strip her down any further. The rifle still has the desicant straw in the barrel.

The rifle was shipped from the Anniston Army Depot. Can't believe there were Marine Corps armorers on an Army base but can see where they would need USMC expertise. Also can't believe Marines would electro pencil O-66 on the flat of the receiver behind the rear sight instead of on a leg of an otherwise pristine receiver.

Could not find any markings on the trigger group other than the usual on the housing, hammer and safety.
I wanted to write the reply to Phil, first, because there is information in that post that answers some of your questions as well.

There were no Marine Armorers at Anniston to my knowledge. Anniston wound up being responsible for the DCM Garands and pistols in earlier days and that's why your rifle came from Anniston. Each U.S. Armed Service had their own Small Arms repair shops up through Depot Rebuild Facilities. Small arms (as well as Ordnance up to and including M1 Abrahm's tanks) when found to be "excess to the needs" of any Service can be picked up basically for the transportation costs by another Service. Since Anniston was chosen to be the storage and issue point for Garands and other firearms for the DCM, they would have received "excess" Garands from the Army, Navy, Marines and maybe even the Air Force though I know almost nothing about the way the Air Force did their small arms "stuff." Anniston would have been most interested in rifles that had been rebuilt by ANY of the Armed Services 5th Echelon Depots, so they would not have to do a lot of rebuilding on the rifles.

Actually, the "O" marked Garands is one of the FEW cases where a Marine Ordnance Maintenance Facility ever rebuilt small arms for the Navy in quantity. I really don't know why they used the Electric Pencil Engraved markings on the receiver, BUT SOMEONE had to specially authorize and order it done as that was NOT APPROVED for standard 5th Echelon Depot Rebuild.

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Old March 21st, 2012, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Fisher View Post
Now, what this post also does is point out something I should have written in my first post. Some of the lower level Navy Award Rifles the Navy handed out to Sailors for Marksmanship Achievement at the two Fleet Compeitions WERE also in .30-06 depending on the time frame of course. I don't know who decided or how it was decided what rifles were issued each year and why. Most likely it had everything to do with what they had on hand, just as it was with Marine Corps Trophy Rifles for so many years.
Gus,

The MKII are awarded to the first place winners and the M-1 30-06 are awarded to the second place holders. Except there was one year when there was a mistake and everyone received standard 30-06 guns from the Fleet matches. Hope this helps.

Dan

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Old March 21st, 2012, 05:49 PM   #9
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Gus,
Here's a link to an auction of 2 Remington 720s and a USMC awarded Garand. You may have worked on it...hard to say. The pictures are great.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=265061453

I can remember at the PacFlt & All Navy matches on the west coast in the mid to late 80s, some of the shooters wanted the .30-06 over the 7.62. Many were multiple winners in the past and may have just wanted something different. In the few years I competed, I do not remember a match-accrurized/NM Garand being given out. The 720s made all of us drooooolllll.

Bruce

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Old March 21st, 2012, 07:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGR1279 View Post
Gus,

The MKII are awarded to the first place winners and the M-1 30-06 are awarded to the second place holders. Except there was one year when there was a mistake and everyone received standard 30-06 guns from the Fleet matches. Hope this helps.

Dan
Really appreciate that as I never heard that before. Thank you.

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Old March 21st, 2012, 07:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDH View Post
Gus,
Here's a link to an auction of 2 Remington 720s and a USMC awarded Garand. You may have worked on it...hard to say. The pictures are great.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=265061453

I can remember at the PacFlt & All Navy matches on the west coast in the mid to late 80s, some of the shooters wanted the .30-06 over the 7.62. Many were multiple winners in the past and may have just wanted something different. In the few years I competed, I do not remember a match-accrurized/NM Garand being given out. The 720s made all of us drooooolllll.

Bruce
I was transferred from the RTE shop in the summer of 1988 as a senior Gunnery Sergeant and did not return to the RTE Shop until Dec. 1995 as a Master Gunnery Sergeant. So I did not do the intitial inspection verification of the rifle given out in 1994.

I've known Top Heuman for a long, LONG time and most recently saw him at the Nationals last year. I don't think his Award Rifle was sent out with that nice of finish in 1994 because we didn't start that until I came back in 1995 and the 1996 rifles were the first ones issued like that. Probably Top Heuman had someone in the RTE Shop refinish the stock like that after he saw the 1996 Award Rifles or he may have done it himself, though I think the former is more likely than the latter.

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Old May 16th, 2012, 05:37 PM   #12
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I have been laid up with an ankle fusion for the last two months but I finally was able to get down stairs and get the M1 Trophy rifle out of th safe. I hope the following will be of interest to the members that replied to my original thread.

SA 30-06 secretary of the navy award rifle O-66
sent from Crane IN to Carl Morganstern AUG 9 2004

Receiver SA # 2,444, Jan 1944

Barrel SA 12-43

OP Rod DA35382 SA

Bolt 6528287-SA
?s?

Trig. Housing 28290-12-SA

Hammer 648008-2SA

Milled trig. guard small o on inside curve

Stocks sanded and well oiled SA in a box but no P
JLG

Tomorrow she goes to National Match Armory to be fine tuned by Eric Pierce


Last edited by sgt 0311; May 17th, 2012 at 08:55 AM.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #13
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Pictures please?


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Old May 16th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #14
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Sure would like to oblige but all I can do is turn this thing on and go to TFL. Sorry.

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