M14 Forum

Packing a 45 · February 15th, 2012, 10:25 AM

Gentelmen I have been doing a stiffning job on a GI fiber stock and Loaded SS. and have come up with an issue. When I lock the action into the stock I can see daylight between the heel and the stock maby 64 inch a little uneaven, I have not worked on that area. The only contact between the action and stock is the front band the heel, and trigger assembly I have placed paper strips between the action and stock then locked the action in then pulled the paper out one at a time slideing them around good cleareance from front band to mag well, have run a feeler gague around the action with no contact. The trigger seems to have good pull down pressure. Do I need too build up the heel or what.
Thanks
Packing

MemphisMachinists · February 16th, 2012, 04:55 AM

I'll take a stab at this.Your action must be touching somewhere. Your post is a bit cunfusing because you say it is not touching the reciever heel, but then you say,
"The only contact between the action and stock is the front band the heel, and trigger assembly"
Pictures would help a lot. Reciever should contact the stock just behind the barrel and just below the serial number area. If you are getting good feel on your trigger guard lock up it has to be touching some where. This sort of thing can be hard to determine. Look for obvious places in the stock where it might touch try marking some spots with a majik marker and then looking for rub spots.
Edit: Is it possible that in your stiffining process you have the gas cyl resting on the stock?

Packing a 45 · February 16th, 2012, 10:15 PM

Can not stay loged on long enough too clear this up. Packing

Packing a 45 · February 17th, 2012, 06:49 PM

Try again.
Sorry of the confusion. There is contact at the front band and under the the chamber at the front of the mag well, I think that is where the action pivits. Am I wrong?

Where the the action set's on the stock I can run a .010 feeler gage all the way around the action no with interferance.

The heal has about 36 In. to 64 in cleareance between stock and action, with TG locked in.

With action ad stock locked in a vice with one finger down pressure at front band I can seperate the action from the stock, not much pressure needed, s that good?

I might have gotten a little carried away with file and sand paper during clean up on the Marine Tex after the stock work.

If someone has a picture they can post of where the action pivits if I have too build up that section to increase Bbl, pull down pressure, or where I can find post or info. I would be very greatfull.

This whole post is too find if I need too build up the stock under the heel or something else. Thanks. Packing

MemphisMachinists · February 18th, 2012, 07:06 AM

There is a section in Kuhnhausen's shop manual about this, but it is not real clear to me. He says "The entire outside perimter of reciever tang shall have equal bearing on the stock." He also says "The rear leggs of the reciever shall have eual bearing on the recoil shoulders of the stock liner".There is about a half a page called Stock and Stock fit. On another page that has descriptions of the reciever and points to the area below the rear sights calling this the reciever stock bearing surfacee. These are the angled surfaces on the bottom of the reciever. They extend to the spot directly above the leggs. I have a NOS fiberglass stock that has not been tampered with. It looks like it makes conact in the front without the trigger group pulling down, but the rear has a slight gap (Paper thin) untill the TG is installed and pulling down. I am learning from your post and hope it is helping you, but I definitley aint an expert.

Packing a 45 · February 18th, 2012, 04:43 PM

Memphis Machinists/ MM
I want to thank you for your time and effort. Reading from your last post gave me some insite on what to look for along with more questions.

Kuhnhausen mentions stock liner so he must be talking about wood stocks. Wondering is there s much diffrence other than that.

You mention the tang is that the heel ?

If the entire outside of the tang needs full contact I can build that up. It does not have a flat leavel surface just have too figure out the proper elevation for proper pulldown.

The reviever stock bearing surfacee of the stock is flat MY BAD I can build that back up. I wonder if the angles between the two will pinch the stock inwards too cause a squeeze fit on the legs/lugs for a tighter fit when locked up.

What is a NOS stock ?

I can shim the TG for a tighter lockup but I think that would change some thngs for the worse somthing about doubels. Is that right ?

Where can I order Kuhnhausens"s shop manual ?

Maybe Gus, Diffrent, or others can chime in and enlighten us on the diffrence between the two types of stocks.

Again thanks. Memphis Machinists

Packin

MemphisMachinists · February 18th, 2012, 05:08 PM

NOS means new old sevice.
Kuhnhausen has several books. I started with him on 1911's.
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_739eh1ya8h_b
I have decided that he is not talking about what you are concerned about on the reciever legs. This is important but just not what you are concerned with now.
My NOS stocks have some clearence between the front part of the reciever and the rear (heel). I think the term tang must refer to the angled portion of the bottom of the reciever. Not all manufacturers are making this an angle cut, but my Fultons are. An angle cut here seems logical to reduce the bearing surface.
I'll try to do some pics tommorrow.

Gus Fisher · February 19th, 2012, 08:21 AM

Since this question comes up a lot, I decided to post a new thread on it. I haven't written all the posts for the thread yet, but I think it may help and stay tuned as I get more posts typed:

Fit of M1 and M14 receivers to stocks

Rojkoh · February 21st, 2012, 03:27 PM

[QUOTE=Packing a 45;804273]Gentelmen I have been doing a stiffning job on a GI fiber stock and Loaded SS. and have come up with an issue. When I lock the action into the stock I can see daylight between the heel and the stock maby 64 inch a little uneaven, I have not worked on that area. The only contact between the action and stock is the front band the heel, and trigger assembly I have placed paper strips between the action and stock then locked the action in then pulled the paper out one at a time slideing them around good cleareance from front band to mag well, have run a feeler gague around the action with no contact. The trigger seems to have good pull down pressure. Do I need too build up the heel or what.

GI Fiberglass stocks are horrible. You won't get anything more then a standard USGI issue rifle accuracy if you use one, even if you bed the rifle. When they started the production run, they realized how bad it was an the run of glass stocks was fairly limited. *IF* you want a GOOD Glass stock, go to McMillan and look at: M1A, M2A and M3A stocks. First time I ever bedded a rifle into a glass stock was a Devine Tx rifle into the M1A stock in 78 I think it was. I have an M1A stock waiting for me for my project. It'll show bedding a M1A action into the stock without bothering with a liner. The Devine Tx rifle still shoots just fine with the original bedding job. PS, the mean Radius for an issue rifle was 3-5 inches at 100 yards per Frankfort documentation on my shelf.

Rojkoh · February 21st, 2012, 03:47 PM

I'm currently salvaging a very BAD surplus Walnut stock for the project. At the moment I'm filling the selector switch hole and take care of some other issues on the stock, like dings and dents.

If anyone wants to see any of it, let me know via "private" message. It gets to me without having to find it.

Case in point: putting down "footings" for the bedding I'll use for the Selector hole and adding some 3/4 inch finishing nails to strengthen it.

Gus Fisher · February 21st, 2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rojkoh

GI Fiberglass stocks are horrible. You won't get anything more then a standard USGI issue rifle accuracy if you use one, even if you bed the rifle. When they started the production run, they realized how bad it was an the run of glass stocks was fairly limited. *IF* you want a GOOD Glass stock, go to McMillan and look at: M1A, M2A and M3A stocks. First time I ever bedded a rifle into a glass stock was a Devine Tx rifle into the M1A stock in 78 I think it was. I have an M1A stock waiting for me for my project. It'll show bedding a M1A action into the stock without bothering with a liner. The Devine Tx rifle still shoots just fine with the original bedding job. PS, the mean Radius for an issue rifle was 3-5 inches at 100 yards per Frankfort documentation on my shelf.

The M14 stock liner was necessary on standard size infanty wood stocks to reinforce the mag well area and make it less prone to cracking. As the McMillan stocks were so much stronger than wood, I don't know anyone who ever used a stock liner in them as it was never necessary.

G.I. fiberglass stocks were and are competitive with wood stocks on the NM course when the fore ends are stiffened up. Matter of fact because they were not subject to swelling and shrinkage, they were better. The problem early on was we did not have a bedding compound of high enough quality to do that until McMillan had already come out with their stocks. Of course I won't ever dispute the McMillan stocks are the highest quality fiberglass stock out there, but a properly bedded and reinforced G.I. fiberglass stock showed it was as competitive as almost every other stock than the McMillan.

Packing a 45 · March 11th, 2012, 02:38 PM

Gentelmen I'm back too this project after some Auto problems. I have been looking for info on where too place the coat hangers beneath the Bbl, and what I'm trying too accomplish. I am lost. A picture would be great. Packing

Gus Fisher · March 11th, 2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Packing a 45

Gentelmen I'm back too this project after some Auto problems. I have been looking for info on where too place the coat hangers beneath the Bbl, and what I'm trying too accomplish. I am lost. A picture would be great. Packing

I think TonyBen shows it in some of his photo essays.

tonyben · March 11th, 2012, 10:01 PM

Sorry I'm late to the party.

The farther forward, the better. Also, I'd take Gus' advice and use a stout drill rod or welding rod in the diameter of a coat hangar. I feel that my bedding job could have been better if I had a more robust rod that provided better pressure.

IIRC, with the drill rod inserted, the heel should rest around a half an inch above the stock and require force to squeeze it down.

Packing a 45 · March 22nd, 2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyben

Sorry I'm late to the party.

The farther forward, the better. Also, I'd take Gus' advice and use a stout drill rod or welding rod in the diameter of a coat hangar. I feel that my bedding job could have been better if I had a more robust rod that provided better pressure.

IIRC, with the drill rod inserted, the heel should rest around a half an inch above the stock and require force to squeeze it down.

TonyBen? Guss
Tony after our phone conversation I went ahead with the top of the stock
and bottom of the action bedding useing the drill rod Gus recomended and it
worked great I have 1/2" of cleareance at the heel. But I did not get the TG lockup I was wanting, I really have too force the action down into the stock
realy takes a lot of muscle and a finel rap hard rap with my hand. Afread something will break. Is it ok too releve the stock under the TG ears to releve the tightness. Thanks. Packing