M14 Forum

54321 · November 17th, 2011, 09:26 AM

http://www.gundigest.com/gun-rights/...s-nfa-firearms

ATF Classifies Chore Boy Pot Scrubber Pads NFA Firearms

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Firearms Technology Branch has deemed “Chore Boy copper cleaning pads, along with fiberglass insulation,” a firearm, subject to registration and a $200 transfer tax, an official letter obtained recently by Gun Rights Examiner reveals. The response to an attorney inquiry by John R. Spencer, Chief, Firearms Technology Branch, offers one of the more creatively restrictive assessments since ATF declared a shoestring to be a machinegun.

The rationale Spencer uses:

A silencer is a firearm per U.S. Code, subject to National Firearms Act registration and transfer tax requirements.

“[S]ound/gas absorbing materials manufactured from Chore Boy copper cleaning pads, along with fiberglass insulation, constitute a silencer…”

Therefore, it is illegal for an individual to replace deteriorated material within an already- registered suppressor without an approved ATF Form 1, ‘Application to Make and Register a Firearm,’” along with a “$200.00 making tax” and “a ‘no-marking’ variance…since there is no viable area in which to apply a serial number to the sound-absorbing material.” Read more

brassmagnet · November 17th, 2011, 09:46 AM

Looks like that letter was dated Nov 2010.

CAVman · November 17th, 2011, 09:49 AM

Pretty BOGUS To Me!

An Attorney Wrote BATFE and asked...

Can My Client Take His Suppressor Apart And Just Replace The Inside Material With Copper Chore Pads And Plumbing-Type Insulation?

BATFE Said---NO!

The Law Is...If You Want To RE-DO A Suppressor, You Must File A New Form '1' And Pay Your $200 Tax !

Just The Same As BUILDING YOUR OWN CAN!

Nothing New Here!

The Attorney Could Just As Well Have Asked---Can I Use A Toilet Paper Roll Stuffed With Wadded-Up Toilet Paper and Duct Tape It On The End Of My .22 Pistol?

BATFE Would Have Replied...If You Do, It's Then A SUPPRESSOR, And You Have to Have An Approved Form '1', Pay The $200 Tax, Yada-Yada-Yada...

Yes, EVEN IF IT'S TP !!!

THEY DID NOT MAKE Copper Chore Pads Or Insulation CONTRABAND!!!

Now Having Said All That...No Doubt Some Won't Read It...And Will Reply To This Post...'THAT'S B.S. !!!

Oh Well...

CAVman in WYoming

RAMMAC · November 17th, 2011, 11:10 AM

THAT'S BS...

Only kidding...

Actually what I do think is BS is having to apply for a permit a second time. They already got their revenue out of the person the first time around, they already know that the person has a can so why do they need another form and another $200.

Of course this was just a rhetorical comment, I don't really care anyways. I'll never spend the money for a suppressor anyways, I do like the idea of their helping to eliminate hearing damage but it's another luxury that I'll never be able to afford.

CAVman · November 17th, 2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAMMAC

THAT'S BS...

Only kidding...

Actually what I do think is BS is having to apply for a permit a second time. They already got their revenue out of the person the first time around, they already know that the person has a can so why do they need another form and another $200.

Of course this was just a rhetorical comment, I don't really care anyways. I'll never spend the money for a suppressor anyways, I do like the idea of their helping to eliminate hearing damage but it's another luxury that I'll never be able to afford.

Well, Rammac, I Was Serious When I Said...BUILD YOUR OWN!
I HAVE, Per A BATFE Form '1', And A One-Time(NOT Annual!)$200 Tax Stamp!
Just Because...I 'CAN'! And, It Really P.O.'s A Lot Of People Who Think You Cannot Do So, It's Illegal, Why Would Anyone Need One/Want One, etc,etc?

CAVman in WYoming

RAMMAC · November 17th, 2011, 11:43 AM

That's very cool CAVman, I like your attitude.

And I agree, get really tired of people that claim that since they don't see a need for something you shouldn't have it. Heck, I don't see a need for television so should all TVs be outlawed (I don't have one by the way)?

I've always been intrigued by the mechanics involved in building a truly effective can but I've never really had in interest in using one. I have to admit though, I've been next to people who used them and they are easy on the ears, and the modern cans don't seem to have any negative affect on accuracy, at least out to 100 yards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAVman

Well, Rammac, I Was Serious When I Said...BUILD YOUR OWN!
I HAVE, Per A BATFE Form '1', And A One-Time(NOT Annual!)$200 Tax Stamp!
Just Because...I 'CAN'! And, It Really P.O.'s A Lot Of People Who Think You Cannot Do So, It's Illegal, Why Would Anyone Need One/Want One, etc,etc?

CAVman in WYoming

gulliver62 · November 17th, 2011, 12:26 PM

I have to agree with CAVman here. One thing I can't stand almost as much as the government sticking their nose where it doesn't belong is someone who makes statement that is blatantly false in trying to support their point. That just gives more ammunition to the other side and feeds the disinformation highway. You won't be filling out a form to buy chore boy at Wal-mart (well not today anyway).

The more likely government scenario in banning your chore-boy is because they are rumored to be used for some reason by crack-heads. I was told this by a local LE guy when I told him I liked to use the chore-boy to get a really good scrub on my .45 barrels.

brassmagnet · November 17th, 2011, 12:55 PM

I use one on my 13" AC556, and I gotta tell ya - I like it then! :)

It is nice to spend a magazine or two and not have to worry about hearing the Mrs. call me for dinner (chuckle). If I ever do another one tho, like CAVman, I'll Form 1 it and then build it myself, once approved.

A square 10 · November 17th, 2011, 06:35 PM

you mean to say its the application of the material that makes it regulated , not the accusation of a crime making it so ?

gulliver62 · November 18th, 2011, 05:15 AM

The act of rebuilding the can (with any substance) is what is regulated.

art7 · November 18th, 2011, 05:59 AM

CAVman, tell me more about building your own. I started down that path somew years ago, but never actually did it. My recollection from having read the regs is that to build your own, you first have to submit plans to the ATF, and then pay the tax stamp when they approve the plans. Is that how it was for you? Surely you don't get a free pass to build anything you want after you pay the tax stamp ....

I also recall from reading the regs that materials used in a supressor that are common materials sold to the public do NOT constitute a suppressor part. That was in the context of some designs that used rubber washers as baffles. THese needed to be replaced occasionally. and the ruling was that a rubber washer is not a suppressor specific part. I'd have thought copper scrub pads would fall in the same category, as long as the original supressor was made with copper wool in it.

Art

charlie98 · November 18th, 2011, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAMMAC

Heck, I don't see a need for television so should all TVs be outlawed (I don't have one by the way)?.

Hee Hee.... we don't even have cable or an antenna. We do have a TV so our daugher, whom we homeschool (I'm surprised they haven't found a way to outlaw that...) can watch documentaries and other educational videos (and so I can watch war movies and such while priming 7.62mm brass...)

I'd love to have a can on a .45 pistol, but can neither afford the can, the stamp or the pistol at the moment... I wish someone would make an intergal can for the Browning Buckmark...

tmcfalls · November 18th, 2011, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver62

The act of rebuilding the can (with any substance) is what is regulated.

That is the part that bothers me. The person has already paid a tax on the suppressor, why should they have to pay another tax and have to wait months just to repair it.

CAVman · November 18th, 2011, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by art7

CAVman, tell me more about building your own. I started down that path somew years ago, but never actually did it. My recollection from having read the regs is that to build your own, you first have to submit plans to the ATF, and then pay the tax stamp when they approve the plans. Is that how it was for you? Surely you don't get a free pass to build anything you want after you pay the tax stamp ....

I also recall from reading the regs that materials used in a supressor that are common materials sold to the public do NOT constitute a suppressor part. That was in the context of some designs that used rubber washers as baffles. THese needed to be replaced occasionally. and the ruling was that a rubber washer is not a suppressor specific part. I'd have thought copper scrub pads would fall in the same category, as long as the original supressor was made with copper wool in it.

Art

Art...You Are Close On This...But Nothing Regarding NFA Firearms is Simple!
BATFE Regs Are Not 'Logical'...They Have Just 'Evolved' Since 1934 Without Many Changes in the underlying Federal Code.
First Thing...You Do NOT Have To Submit PLANS...just basic SPECS...ONLY CALIBER(S)AND LENGTH, AND, You Make Up Your Own MODEL NAME/Number/Serial Number!
You Do Not Have To Submit A 'Schematic' Or A Photo Either Before Or After!
No, You Do Not Have A 'Free Pass' To Build Just Anything...The BATFE Regs State You Can Only Build That ONE and ONLY 'CAN' Based On That ONE Form 1 Approval for that ONE SN#/Model#/Length# Suppressor!
ANYTHING ELSE...is viewed by the BATFE...as a Violation of Federal Law!
And That's All I'm Gonna Say On That Subject!
I will try to locate a good link to solid NFA Info for You to read up on...
And I mean that...READ A LOT!
A Lot Of Questions Asked On The Internet...Don't Get Answered!
For Example...Some Guys...Have A Lot Of Metal Stock In Their Shops...
They Might Have Tubing, Maybe Solid Stock, Maybe A Lot Of Things...
Of And By Themselves, They Are NOTHING....
But...IF...A Guy Were To Start Cutting, Milling, Theading, Drilling 'Baffles' Into Solid Stock...And Start Assembling Those Parts Into Something RESEMBLING A Silencer...
AND...Someone Were To 'Drop A Dime On You' For Example...

You Would Be Subject To Serious Federal Prosecution!
Now That's A Lot Of 'IF'S'!
And The Only Time Anybody Actually GETS Prosecuted Is When They Are A Grade A IDIOT!

Point #2...ONCE The BATFE Approves Your Suppressor...And Then You Build It...The BATFE Regs Essentially Say...THAT'S IT! YOU'RE DONE! If You Want To Try A NEW And Different Idea...Start Over With A NEW Form 1 App!

But...Again, There is No Schematic, No Plans, Not Precise Measurements, No Photos, Nothing But Caliber(s) And Length!

So...There You Go...
Lots More To Read And Learn...

Please...Nobody Tell Me That the 1934 NFA Act Is Unconstitutional!
That's Not Really Helpful When Building Your Own Can!

No, It's Not Logical, Rational, Reasonable...But It Is THE LAW!

My Explanation Above Is Intentionally Very Short And Limited....And Therefore Can Be 'Picked At'...But That's The Nature Of NFA Law...
The More You Learn...The Less You're Sure About!

CAVman in WYoming

CAVman · November 18th, 2011, 06:12 PM

[QUOTE=charlie98;762480

I'd love to have a can on a .45 pistol, but can neither afford the can, the stamp or the pistol at the moment... I wish someone would make an intergal can for the Browning Buckmark...[/QUOTE]

Actually They DO, or at least HAVE DONE IT...

I Have Seen Many...

Not CHEEP!

CAVman in WYoming