M14 Forum

GARRARD · November 16th, 2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by washington

The only hope we have of saving ourselves is restoring the rule of law. That is the Constitution.

The same Constitution that allowed this mess in the first place? The chains on government aren't heavy enough. Even if we could put everything back the way it was, what would stop it from getting out of control again? Misdirection plays or not, I don't consider second amendment rights secondary to anything. I want my guns when the whole damn thing comes crashing down.

54321 · November 16th, 2011, 04:07 PM

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

John Adams

CAVman · November 16th, 2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by washington

Quite the opposite. I am pointing out the REAL issue. They are running a misdirection play, you think the play is going to the right but the ball carrier is going left. Your missing the ball. The only hope we have of saving ourselves is restoring the rule of law. That is the Constitution. Chipping away at our gun rights is secondary to the fact that the whole concept of federally controlled land is unconstitutional. As is obviously, messing with our right to bear arms against a potentially tyrannical government. We have to educate ourselves as to what America was set up to be. People alive today fall short of our founders hopes. The only person running for president that cares about the constitution is Ron Paul. His message is central to our survival. Love him or hate him he will follow the constitution strictly and has for thirty years.
If it is not listed under Article one, section eight, the federal government cannot do it.

Put more clearly, your going after the pawns while ignoring the other more important pieces.

So, Just Once, Just For 'Shi*ts And Grins' Here...

Tell Me This...

Would You/Will Actively Oppose/Fight This Federal Initiative, Or NOT ???

A Simple Yes Or No Answer Will Suffice...

CAVman in WYoming

RAMMAC · November 16th, 2011, 05:02 PM

As CAVman is trying to point out, if you want to do something about the problem then take some kind of action.

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Whatsinaname181 · November 16th, 2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GARRARD

The same Constitution that allowed this mess in the first place? The chains on government aren't heavy enough. Even if we could put everything back the way it was, what would stop it from getting out of control again? Misdirection plays or not, I don't consider second amendment rights secondary to anything. I want my guns when the whole damn thing comes crashing down.

every now and again maybe the gov't needs a good face punching... something about a tree and refreshments or that sort of thing

oldflyboy · November 16th, 2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAVman

Ok...Serious Question....I'm not intending to 'tweak' you at all here.

But...as I wrote above...IF All We Do NOW Is To Resolve To Go Into The Voting Booth On Tuesday, November 6th, 2012 And VOTE AGAINST Any Incumbent...
Is That Enough?

The other side of the them vs us equation are the professional government employees. Many of these repressive rules are created by them and submitted for approval. Not many need be voted on by Congress.
So, NO...voting out incumbents is NOT enough.

Phinehas · November 16th, 2011, 06:24 PM

Whatsinaname181; every now and again maybe the gov't needs a good face punching... something about a tree and refreshments or that sort of thing

I can't stop laughing, but really, if they went to war back when, for a mere fraction of the unconstitutionality of what we are facing today, what makes anyone think they can turn it around now with anything less than massive bloodshed, . . . we're only dreaming if we think we can.

CAVman · November 16th, 2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phinehas

Whatsinaname181; every now and again maybe the gov't needs a good face punching... something about a tree and refreshments or that sort of thing

I can't stop laughing, but really, if they went to war back when, for a mere fraction of the unconstitutionality of what we are facing today, what makes anyone think they can turn it around now with anything less than massive bloodshed, . . . we're only dreaming if we think we can.

So...Serious Question To You, Also, Phinehas...

Will YOU Actively Fight This Federal Initiative?

OR, Will You NOT Do So, Because You Are 'Hoping' That It Is Just One More Step Down A Path To "Massive Bloodshed"?

CAVman in WYoming

Phinehas · November 16th, 2011, 06:56 PM

CAVman; So...Serious Question To You, Also, Phinehas...

Will YOU Actively Fight This Federal Initiative?

OR, Will You NOT Do So, Because You Are 'Hoping' That It Is Just One More Step Down A Path To "Massive Bloodshed"?

CAVman in WYoming

I seriously don't think anyone wants the inevitable, especially at my age, but I am a dyed-in-the-wool realest, and I've been around long enough to see that there is no justice from the jury box, the ballot box is a joke, there's only one box left.

washington · November 16th, 2011, 09:22 PM

Would I accept or oppose the Dept. of Interiors proposal? I don't know all the details, but on it's surface I would certainly oppose it. CAVman you and I differ in that you have much more faith in our government than I do. (e.g. 9/11, Oklahoma City...). Faith in your government will get your killed or imprisoned. That's what history teaches us, that was the lesson our founders left us. The Declaration of Independence is a list of offenses against the colonist by the British. Thomas Jefferson originally listed 82 offenses (that was edited down to ~28). Reading the DOI today is like reading a list of current events. The nature of government does not change. There is nothing new under the sun, as some wise man said.
We have to insist our elected officials honor their oath to follow the constitution. That is only going to happen when we the people understand the constitution. I put up a post months back asking how many "OathKeepers" were on this forum-not one reply.
I of course understand being upset about the potential invasion of our right to self defense. But, the more important question is, who the hell are they to claim they own the land? They are have no authority. The government claiming it owns 1/4 of the western half of the US is the real issue here.
BTW this is not a left/right issue. There is no left/right.

mgraffam · November 17th, 2011, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GARRARD

The same Constitution that allowed this mess in the first place? The chains on government aren't heavy enough. Even if we could put everything back the way it was, what would stop it from getting out of control again? Misdirection plays or not, I don't consider second amendment rights secondary to anything. I want my guns when the whole damn thing comes crashing down.

Don't blame the Constitution. It is just a series of checks and balances and it is actually set up very well.

The 2A IS the check that was supposed to keep it from getting like this.

Thomas Jefferson figured we'd need a little bit of bloodshed every 20 years or so to keep the spirit of resistance alive, and to keep the would-be tyrants scared. Eternal vigilance, remember?

'We' failed back in 1886 or so. We lost the spirit of resistance. As a nation we became fat and lazy, and now we wonder why our heart is about to stop and why our government is lethargic in responding to even the most dire problems?

The few of us left that truly love our liberties, our job is try to educate others. To inspire them. To help them fall in love with liberty too.

By the grace of God I was born nearly 3 months premature on July 4th, 1975. I was read my last rights as an infant. But I struggled, and did just fine. As a child, I always had problems having a 'normal' birthday party like the other kids, because my friends would often be doing things with their families that day. It taught me that my birthday was bigger than myself. I'd often get taken to fireworks displays, and adults would joke 'See all these fireworks are for you' .. but I was keenly aware that they weren't. I understood that they were symbolic of the 'rocket's red glare; the bombs bursting in air' .. I knew we were supposed to be remembering a war. THE war. It made me really listen in history class. It made me take a real, personal interest, in the Declaration of Independence.

It made all the difference.

45.308 · November 17th, 2011, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAMMAC

Sorry, but I get a little tired of hearing how those whose rights are going to be taken away have to accept the blame for loosing their rights. Taking my gun rights away because there is garbage in the area is ridiculous.

The truth is that it's not firearms enthusiasts that trash the environment, it's lazy, self centered, narcissistic PEOPLE that trash the environment, regardless of whether they use firearms or not. The places that you refer to as being trashed by shooters are used by more than just shooters, my guess is that in your experience the places where you shoot are really just unofficial garbage dumps. If all the garbage you refer to was left only by shooters then all firearms ranges would look like garbage dumps.

Look at any public gathering and you will see nothing but trash and damage to property after the people leave. Firearms enthusiasts that meekly accept the blame for people abusing the environment just helps the anti-gunners create an atmosphere where it's acceptable to take our rights away.

Well said, a local area that has seen target shooting and hunting for 40 years is now closed to shooting. Not because shooters trashed the Jim Creek area but everyone else did, way more other users of the area compared to shooters but the public always seem to back anti guns. But shooters did use cars, stoves, hot water heats, etc as targets so, this was perceived as shooters junking the area. City high schools had huge party's in the area and did more junking of the area than anyone and many of them did shooting at the party too. Most of but not all shooters I met did some cleaning up while there. Popped a few hoppers as a kid there but.....

M21guy · November 17th, 2011, 02:54 PM

I've always felt public hunting grounds the around here isn't the same as a designated target range and shouldn't be used as such. It isn't like you guys out west with huge expanses of land where you actually could shoot 50cal rifles and not bother a soul. Around here land is much smaller. While it might affect the way you view it, I'm not seeing a huge issue. No one goes out to the woods around here and shoots targets, no one. It isn't even something we think about. I'm not even sure it would be even legal to do so in Wisconsin.

RAMMAC · November 17th, 2011, 04:18 PM

I hope you're not proud of the fact that nobody has the freedom to shoot where they choose to, that they have to go to some facility that is controlled by the government.

A freedom isn't truly a freedom if you can only exercise it within the boundaries that government sets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M21guy

I've always felt public hunting grounds the around here isn't the same as a designated target range and shouldn't be used as such. It isn't like you guys out west with huge expanses of land where you actually could shoot 50cal rifles and not bother a soul. Around here land is much smaller. While it might affect the way you view it, I'm not seeing a huge issue. No one goes out to the woods around here and shoots targets, no one. It isn't even something we think about. I'm not even sure it would be even legal to do so in Wisconsin.