M14 Forum

Whatsinaname181

I want to hunt bears with an MG42. LOL (i kid, i kid)

M21guy

Dive on the grenade. Now you're a hero and it's a one way ticket out of this hell hole

Stg1944

I recognize these restrictions have been in place for awhile but having never been in the military, I have a number of questions.

When did these rules go into place? Were our troops ever allowed to carry on base?

Was the average soldier allowed to carry his issued rifle or sidearm loaded, or with ammunition at hand while on duty? What about personal arms while off duty?

Were the rules tailored to the base location (e.g. Ft. Carson vs. Ft. Lewis vs. Camp Pendleton)? What about bases overseas like Germany, Italy, Korea?

Were there differences in the rules based on branch of service?

Thanks is advance.

bd111

I'd be curious about that, too. I practically grew up on USAF bases - major installations of the Cold War era at Wichita Falls, Ft Worth, San Antonio. Later spent a fair amount of time at Ft Hood (U.S. Army). Thousands of military personnel and civilians 24/7, families, kids, schools, hospitals, whole towns. People practiced respect and courtesy anyway, guests on base were welcome, nobody seemed to give a lot of thought to who (besides MPs) might be armed. I don't recall any particular rule against carrying on base or a resident officer or airman having personal firearms. It was more like a custom inside the gates to go unarmed unless some duty required it. If you couldn't feel "safe" there you sure couldn't feel safe downtown.

Bolt2bounce

One of the reasons I got out..no weapons access.. when I was at Bragg I had a shotgun reloader in my barracks room.. had a M-14 or two in my wall locker also, never got caught.. and I was lucky I didn't have a room mate for much of the time... It would suck to be in these days with Obummer calling the shots.. so when does the gay barracks get built..on post?? B2B

Whatsinaname181

i was told it was that retard Clinton who took away our right to bear arms on post.

leadbug

Wrong, It was not Clinton!

I am going to vent a personal gripe. I am an Army veteran. I was a unit armorer when I was in.

The United States military has got to be one of the most stupid, f'd up institutions of this country.

Back in '87-'89 it was the same BS. Now, with the Army letting the muslim kill everyone at Ft Hood, I can say it and mean it. The military is just plain stupid - NOT THE MEN AND WOMEN ENLISTED, BUT THE LEADERS, ALONG WITH THE LEADERS OF OUR COUNTRY.

Quite frankly, it's why I got out ASAP. I could not handle the absurd nature of the bureaucracy and the BS. There is no excuse for the military to be governed in such a way.

I was expecting so much more brilliance when I went in - I was 19. I had no idea how bad it was going to be.

All that said, I would do it again, and miss everything it was supposed to be for me, but wasn't.

Whatsinaname181

leadbug, im sorry to say it- but i agree with you on so many levels in reguards to our senior leadership in the army. one big, beurocratic pile of stinky horse poo.

Even the senior NCO ranks (some sergeants major and 1sg's) are stinky poo poo too. Many seem to have THEIR best interests are heart, not the interests of our ARMY and the SOLDIERS that are in. sometimes loving on soldiers is not coddling them, but letting NCO's like me put a boot in their ass. Once every so often, i need a boot in MY ass too. Nope. everythings so PC now, and its only getting worse.

Whatever. in my sphere of influence, shit dont roll that way.

8654Maine

I was gonna keep my big fat mouth out of this, but thanks to Leadbug and Whatsinname181, I'm gonna chime in: I agree with 'em.

I was in during the mid 80's thru the early 90's.

I remember standing gate check w/ no round chambered. I recall patrols with no magazine inserted.

For the most part, weapons training was a joke. Blanks & Miles gear with very minimal rounds training (mostly for annual quals): "budget" was an oft cited reason.

It seems we were playing to be warriors, but never got the training.

It seems like the officers and brass were embarrassed about the fighting/hands-on aspect of military training. We couldn't get hurt or see blood or be stressed.

It wasn't until I passed recon selection that a whole new world of the military opened up.

I think much of the morale problem of the enlisted is that they get disappointed.

I saw officers and NCO's trying to be politicians rather than leaders.

I'll stop my rant afore I get carried away.

Pro_USA1776

Not everyones a politician, some of us are leaders ----> Pro_USA1776

rangejunkie

cool any good places to shoot down that way? Im from Pearl, Ms by the way.

Gus Fisher

About three years before I came to Edson Range as the NCOIC of the Armory, there was an incident where a recruit decided to take hostages from the rifle range. A Range Officer I knew talked the guy into taking him as one of the hostages. When it looked like the Recruit started to figure out he was not going to make it and might start shooting hostages, the Range Officer pulled out his pistol from his carry posistion under his utility jacket and behind his back. Two rounds in the recruit's chest and a third round into head and the recruit did not have a chance to shoot anyone before he died.

Under the investigation, everything was going good for the Range Officer until they asked him where he had gotten the pistol. They did not mind he was carrying it concealed, but that wasn't the problem. The problem turned out it was a .357 Smith and Wesson he personally owned. They had to give him an official reprimand, but it was the kind that was taken out of his OQR one year later and nothing permanent. The good news is that it did not hurt and probably helped him get promoted.

What I most strongly objected to, especially in the 1980's, was how we kept hammering the use of Deadly Force into the troops. The PROBLEM was our message came across as "DON'T SHOOT" most often, even when a situation arrived they not only were justified in shooting, but would have to do so to protect someone. So when I was the OD and at the daily Guard Mounts, I would quickly go over the use of Deadly Force as ordered for just a couple of minutes and THEN I went into about 15 minutes of when they should or were required to shoot. Then I told them that if they did shoot, there would be an Article 32 investigation as soon as possible. That always scared them, but I told them it was a GOOD thing as that way, one would be cleared of any fault and it would have been almost impossible for anyone to sue them in civiliain court.

Well, one of the end results of hammering "Deadly Force" into our Marines happened shortly after we arrived in Somalia. In one of our unit's perimeter fighting holes, a young Marine fell asleep. A Somali spotted that from a three story building nearby and came down and ran to that fighting hole and jumped in. Marines on both sides of him watched and did nothing. It was DARN fortunate for that sleeping Marine that he didn't get his throat slit. The Somali jumped out of the hole with the Marine's M249 SAW and ran off. Now NEITHER of the Marines on either side opened up and laid that Somali out. Since we operated under the ROE that even if someone just pointed a weapon at you, you could blow them away, the Marines' answers were sort of surprising. As they understood the use of Deadly Force, they were not allowed to open fire on the Somali even after he ran off with the M249 SAW.

I heard about this from some SNCO"s who were talking about it at HQ MARFOR up on the roof when we "dined' at night after the sun went down. I told them, "WTF did we expect after hammering "don't shoot" into our Marine's heads so much?!!" I told them we needed to make an example of this to inform our Marines of an example of WHEN to blow someone away.

Whatsinaname181

Run into the same problem today with deadly force. when youre in a good firefight, it doesent matter much except try not to shoot civilians who are running around or trying to get away- but when things are quiet and theres not much happening except sporadic small arms, its hard to discern sometimes. crowds of people and dense urban environments- hostile action/hostile intent is the modus operendae and is how we conducted ourselves in theater. even so, i have seen some hesitate under fire. weather it is a slow decision making process or a reluctance to shoot someone, i am not sure. i think with the advent of modern video games and the constant exposure to violence on tv, we have desensitized ourselves to some of this though. when in doubt, i always pull the trigger. id rather be tried by 12 than carried by six or worse yet, have my soldiers carried by six.

too bad that marine fell asleep on guard duty. he'd have been article 15'd and burning poo for the rest of his deployment if he was in my squad, lol.

Gus Fisher

I know the Marine who fell asleep got at least an Article 15 and had to pay the government for the M249 SAW. What iI don't know for sure is if he got a Court Martial, and if so, which one it was.