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July 17th, 2011, 06:39 AM
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#136 | | Master Gunner
Join Date: May 2010 Location: Utah
Posts: 863
| Quote:
Originally Posted by mgraffam  I believe it was F. Scott Fitzgerald, or maybe E.E. Cummings.. who said,
"It is a test of a first-rate mind to be able to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time."
Yes, you might say I disagree with portions of the ATF, and not others. I wouldn't exactly put it that way - but lets run with it. Of what concern is that? There are many people that I agree with on some issues, and differ on others.. so why should it not be with organizations and their policies too? A great many politicians fit that description, for instance. But I still sometimes set aside my differences and find one that I can stomach voting for.
And, do not put words in my mouth - I am not GLAD to accept something like background checks, or mandatory reporting. It saddens me that crime is such that I need to entertain the idea of accepting these sorts of things. But yes, I am WILLING to accept some 'restrictions' here and there. I see them more as responsibilities - it IS, technically, a restriction for a father not to be able to spend all of his pay check on guns and booze - but that restriction IS his responsibility. So too, I think law abiding citizens have a responsibility to help with crime.
If I seem to jump from one "side" to the other, perhaps you would do well to stop thinking in terms of right and left. Stop trying to fit me into your little boxes that you have created for yourself; stop spending so much mental effort trying to decide if the labels "conservative", "liberal", "crazy", "delusional" or any others apply to me.
If you really want a label - call me pragmatic. Or, maybe 'radically moderate' might be an amusing term. I don't follow the party lines. I look at solutions to problems. Often times the solutions to those problems involve slashing and cutting government - conservatives and libertarians call me their brother then. Sometimes, a new government policy seems like a good idea - then the liberals call me their champion. I think they're all nuts, and I think that party line, ideological crap is one of the biggest problems we have.
I don't think this way because I desire to see myself as unique or some such nonsense - I think this way because I want to get RESULTS. I don't want to move my country "left" or "right" .. I want to move it FORWARD. There are many moderate people that agree.. but the hard-liners constantly ruin it. They constantly fail, at ever turn, to see how their blind adherence to ideology and the constant tug-of-war of both parties has paralyzed our country.
If you can't see how what i've just said is true when you look a the current fiasco with the budget, for example.. then it is YOU you fail to comprehend. | Ok, I am done responding to your poetic drivel. I stopped at your quote.
It tells me everything I need to know.
it's been nice trying to show you the error in your thought process, but I might have more success trying to teach a midget to dunk a basketball.
You have fun with your ideas and the 2 contradicting views.
Please pick me up a gold brick while you ponder the scenery on our way to BATF hell.
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July 17th, 2011, 07:33 AM
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#137 | | Designated Marksman
Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Florida
Posts: 688
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Criminals, by definition, do not obey the law. Even if criminals modify their behavior based on a law, they still have no regard for it, and will find ways around it.
Government, by the nature of it's existence, inevitably encroaches on citizens rights, as that makes it easier for the government employees to do their jobs, or makes them more effective at their job, or in accomplishing their goal. Our founders attempted to limit that as best they could. Even granting the powers that be, the benefit of the doubt, and assuming they have good intentions, history has shown us the disastrous consequences well intentioned government involvement, especially when laws are passed, can be. They also tend to be much more difficult to repeal. The Interstate Commerce Clause for example, now makes it possible for the federal government to control nearly every aspect of our lives. Any new government law should be highly scrutinized, and we should be extremely skeptical of it, especially gun laws, as the founders were aware, because our guns help provide our last chance of defending against outright tyranny by government. If the agencies have to work harder, and be more creative, in order to do there job, that is far less damaging than a further erosion of our rights. If they find it too difficult due to wide open boarders, one would expect them to be making much noise about this, to awaken the citizens who aren't paying attention, and subsequently, the politicians who aren't concerned.
Last edited by Coffindancer; July 17th, 2011 at 08:34 AM.
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July 17th, 2011, 03:51 PM
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#138 | | Snappin In
Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NC
Posts: 24
| Trusting government
I saw a bumper sticker not to long ago. It said, "you can trust the government, just ask any Indian" I'm not Indian but I think this statement is quite accurate and reflects my opinion of the US Gov't. We're all Indians now.
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July 17th, 2011, 04:12 PM
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#139 | | Master Gunner
Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Texas
Posts: 925
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I would suggest that the BATFE, is not legally able to require dealers to report this info.
I do not think something like this is legal to do just with a Bureaucratic decision.
If so, what is to keep them from making a Bureaucratic decision that NO guns can be sold, for the next 30 days, 100 days, or 10 million days...
Bureaucrats, can not "make law". Only the US Congress, can make Federal Laws...
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July 17th, 2011, 04:23 PM
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#140 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coastal NC
Posts: 1,862
| Quote:
Originally Posted by NE450N02 I would suggest that the BATFE, is not legally able to require dealers to report this info.
I do not think something like this is legal to do just with a Bureaucratic decision.
If so, what is to keep them from making a Bureaucratic decision that NO guns can be sold, for the next 30 days, 100 days, or 10 million days...
Bureaucrats, can not "make law". Only the US Congress, can make Federal Laws... | Excellent point sir!
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July 17th, 2011, 04:35 PM
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#141 | | Platoon Sergeant
Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 336
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp Rat I also believe it was Dr. B. Franklin who said "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither" | Actually, the quote is "Those that can give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither."
Folks often leave out the adjectives. I don't see anything 'essential' about needing to wait a few minutes while a BG check is performed, nor mandatory reporting. Nor do I find the benefits of either to be temporary.
Franklin, like the other Founders - as wise as they were, didn't know everything. Here is another gem from Franklin:
"There has never been a good war, nor a bad peace."
I can imagine Churchill getting enraged at such spineless drivel while watching Hitler push harder and harder by the day.
The Founder's were men of their time - but time moves on. In Franklin's world his sentiment about war was a good, and wholesome one - but he had not seen the horrors of WWI and massive industrialization. And, unfortunate as it may be, not all of the principles that he held dear applied any longer in 1940.. and arguably good principles for today just didn't - COULDN'T - have crossed their minds in 1776. Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp Rat As coincidence would have it, "Not left or right but forward happens to be MSNBC's new marketing ploy to distract people from it's highly visible left wing agenda. | I wouldn't know. I don't often watch TV. It wouldn't surprise me though, so many people are sick of the left/right dichotomy. And it is an easy literary device to employ. Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamp Rat Trust me, everything fits in a neat little box. | I weep for the future.
Last edited by mgraffam; July 17th, 2011 at 06:13 PM.
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December 8th, 2011, 11:04 AM
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#142 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: tennessee
Posts: 1,824
| More info
I posted before this was the end game of fast & furious to ram more laws thru not some of it comes out ! http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...n-regulations/
NRA LIFE MEMBER
U. S. ARMY VET
"All gave some but some gave ALL"
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December 8th, 2011, 11:12 AM
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#143 | | Lifer
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tampa
Posts: 3,290
| Quote:
Originally Posted by hero4you69 | I read that story yesterday. If it wasn't for the loss of life, I'd say that it is spectacular how this has blown up in the DOJ's face. They thought they were so damn sneeky.
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December 8th, 2011, 11:19 AM
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#144 | | Lifer
Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: mountain west
Posts: 3,047
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Metonymy The government got caught red handed, so the average citizen gets punished? | That sounds about right...
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December 8th, 2011, 12:07 PM
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#145 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coastal NC
Posts: 1,862
| Quote:
Originally Posted by 1KPerDay That sounds about right... | Oh, but it's no big deal. 
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